Tell me about Ninjas.

[Gez]

I'd give her, for free, Skill Focus: Perform (String Instruments).

Okay, this was my contribution to the RUP meme in that thread. Making that "ninja" come from a persian/arabian/indian land is fine, too: Ninja are just the japanese equivalent of Thugs or Hashishims.

 

[Greg K]

edit: removed

 

[Land Outcast]

Ninja are just the japanese equivalent of Thugs

 

[Victim]

In terms of ranged combat, the ninja have it far better than the rogue. Flanking gives melee rogues more ways to use sneak attack. Overall, the class seems pretty close to a rogue (their skill boosting abilities partially make up for the lack of skill points), so it's not a bad choice. And its powers are pretty cool.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Ninja:
Pros over Rogue: Stealthy to the point of invisibility and intangibility. Superior acrobatic skills.
Cons below Rogue: no evasion, no uncanny dodge, lower trap-related skills

Scout:
Pros over Rogue: Absurdly simple to get skirmish damage (move 10+ feet, and hit someone? Easy!), Bonus to initiative and fortitude, Bonus feats.
Cons Below rogue: Skirmish is weaker than sneak attack in terms of damage dealt (5d6 max vs. 10d6 max) Primarily oriented towards wilderness, some skills lost in unnatural environments, such as camouflage.

Spellthief:
Pros: Sneak attack + spells
Cons: Far too specialized. Only functional against enemy spell casters. Annoys GM's to no end since they have to write out the complete spell list of each and every single enemy.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Why would DMs not have a preset list of spells for "hobgoblin sorcerers from the Burned Claw clan?" I can't imagine sticking casters into a combat situation -- particularly casters who only exist for such a purpose -- without a premade list, even if I was just grabbing the pregen characters from the DMG.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

As in Thugee.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Why would DMs not have a preset list of spells for "hobgoblin sorcerers from the Burned Claw clan?" I can't imagine sticking casters into a combat situation -- particularly casters who only exist for such a purpose -- without a premade list, even if I was just grabbing the pregen characters from the DMG.

Sorry Whizbang, this is one point i disagree with you on. I almost never write up what spells my enemies have (or don't have) memorized / know. There's a pretty easy reason for this: I'm lazy.

Most of the time, I'll write out a rough draft of what the players will encounter (several ratmen + leader-type)

If I'm feeling ambitious, I'll lookup Rat-men in the manual and copy down their AC, to-hit and damage.

Then, I'll pick out what kind of baddie i want the "leader type" to be. generally by tossing a d12. (barbarian, bard, cleric, druid, fighter, monk, paladin (analogue), ranger, rogue, sorcerer, wizard, or Multi class!)

If they have spells, when the combat starts, I flip to the spell list, and pick out three spells of each level that would make sense for the bad guy. (The ratmen sorcerer gets summon swarm (rats))

incidentally: Ninjas != thugs. In feudal japan, Ninjas = rogues with government funding!

I recall a news story not too long ago from Japan. (frustratingly, i cannot find the story which I'm referencing, I believe i saw it listed in the Manchai daily, English edition) Archivists discovered a text that predated the imperialist movement of the 1850's. it was a how-to guide for basic ninjitsu. The bulk of the text was simple advice for infiltrating... well, any place.

There were two quotes though, I recall those vividly.
-"Cary a ladder with you, because you may need to go over a wall"
-"Dress as a laborer, because the (upper class) do not look at the faces of their laborers."

Basic covert-ops stuff. Disguise and infiltration.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Then I'm doubly confused. If you just flip to the page and pick out three spells of the right level like it's no problem, why is it an issue when the spellthief steals a spell?

 

[Agent Oracle]

Then I'm doubly confused. If you just flip to the page and pick out three spells of the right level like it's no problem, why is it an issue when the spellthief steals a spell?

Because the spell thief's ability basically says "hand over the caster's spell sheet, the Thief gets his choice"

which is a problem if you don't have a spell sheet written out. Then you just have to read off your spells to the table... and someone will say "Shouldn't he have FIVE spells at that level?" or "didn't he already cast that spell? How could he have that many memorized?"

it's embarrassing, and aggravating for the DM.

And then you have an issue... how often does your party face spell casting enemies?

Sure, the spell thief gets some spells of his own (1/2 level progression) but he only shines when facing a very limited selection of enemies, and most things PC's fight, just don't fall into that category.

in short: narrow focused: 1/2 back stab, 1/2 spells... just not as effective.