Tell me about Ninjas.

[shilsen]

That's an interpretation I've heard before based on the argument that "it's not the invisibility spell, so it shouldn't drop when you attack." Of course, the easy counter argument is "it's not greater invisibility, so it should drop when you attack." One interpretation makes them greatly underpowered, the other greatly overpowered. My advice would be to ask your DM which one he subscribes to.

What's greater invisibility got to do with it? Invisibility only drops when you attack when it comes from the invisibility spell. Other forms of invisibility, such as the ninja's (IDHMBIFOM, but isn't it an Su ability?), do not.

 

[Mad Mac]

When it comes to Ninja's, don't overlook poison use. Ninja's can apply poison safely at just 3rd level, and by 9th level, can apply poison as a move action. (Enough to whip out a shurkien, poison it, and toss it at someone in the same round) No other class can do this really, and it helps with the sneaky killer vibe. Only thing better than an invisible ninja popping up behind you and stabbing you in the kidneys 3-4 times is to do it using poisoned weapons.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Okay, got my book, here's my take on the "Ghost step".

-The invisibility lasts 1 round.
-It is supernatural, so the invisibility does not dispel if you attack
-It uses one Ki power per round of combat.

Ninja only gain 1 Ki power every 2 levels, and one for each point of Wisdom modifier. So a Ninja's Ki is not great enough for it to remain invisibile for a great deal of time.

Example: at 8th level, a Ninja with an 20 wisdom could stay invisible for a total of 9 rounds, a wizard of the same level, with an intelligence of 14, could cast greater invisibility and be invisible for 80 rounds.

An invisible ninja could theoretically sudden strike 9 people during that time, dealing +4d6 Sudden strike damage to each, for an average of 108 damage, +str, and choice of weapon.

An invisible Wizard could drop 3 fireballs (@ 8d6 each (save for half)) and an Ice Storm (@ 5d6 (no save)), both of which are area effect spells and have the potential to damage multiple foes... and still have 2nd level and 1st level spell slots open for acid arows and magic missiles, and he'd STILL have time to run away from the scene of the carnage.

Really, Ninjas are the best argument I've ever seen for a rogue pursuing the Spring attack feat chain. Start 15 feet away, go invisible, Hit and move.

 

[librarius_arcana]

For those who have been making jokes or linking to "ninja" based sites: Someone please remind me to never put "ninja" in the subject line of a thread ever again.

Hey, never trust anybody without a sense of humor

 

[Stormborn]

Hey, never trust anybody without a sense of humor

A "Sense of Humor" is in the eye of the beholder. In this thread ninja jokes are magical. When the beholder's eye is on them the magic goes away.

Moving on...

I agree with Agent Oracle's take on how sudden stike works. I don't however, think comparing a wizard to a ninja to be appropriate in this case. If a player doesn't want to play a spellcaster, then she doesn't want to play a spellcaster.

I think we can agree that "ninja" is a flavor choice really. The player in question has decided to play a ninja because thats what she wants to play. My job at this point is to help her make the best of that choice, not to point out other classes or combos.

 

[NilesB]

And I don't get why so many people feel that sneak attack is better than sudden strike. Other than round one, you mainly get SA from flanking...which means your in melee with the big bad. A ninja can stay 30 feet away, go invisible and get a full round of pain...and stay nice and safe from bad guys.

Because they are comparing Sneak attack to Sudden Strike, not Sneak attack to Sudden Strike and invisiblilty. Just as they said they were. There are other classes besides Ninja that have the Sudden Strike ability and not all of them can turn invisible.

 

[KPCMammon]

The problem with ninja invisibility is that it is vague enough to allow people to nerf it with little effort. Invisible is a state. This state is commonly granted by the spells Invisibility and Greater Invisibility. The state does not say when it ends, the spells that grant it do. Because ghost step is supernatural, it isn't a direct copy of a spell. Because of this I would go with it lasting a full round, like the book says. WotC customer service disagrees, however. I would ignore this because it makes ninjas vastly inferior to rogues (sneak attack 5+ times a round versus 1 time a round at higher levels).

I am bitter because I played a high level ninja "post errata"

Also, Warforged Ninja/Dread Pirate is not a good combo.

If you could work an "undead" template into there somewhere, then you could have a robot zombie pirate ninja... with a monkey familiar...

One could add Wizard for the monkey, and hopefully take enough levels to become a lich. The inability to stay dead would really help the build.

 

[Agent Oracle]

If you could work an "undead" template into there somewhere, then you could have a robot zombie pirate ninja... with a monkey familiar...

 

[pawsplay]

Warforged ninja/dread pirate, with Arcane Disciple (Death domain), and the familiar feat (monkey).

 

[librarius_arcana]

A "Sense of Humor" is in the eye of the beholder. In this thread ninja jokes are magical. When the beholder's eye is on them the magic goes away.

So...you can't have magic and humor?

Well thats not true now is it?