Tell me about these older edition D&D products [list updated: Nov 20/10]

[Jhaelen]

I've also added Forest Maker to my Dark Sun wish list, but I'm still unsure about that adventure. I might change my mind about that one.

I'm not sure if I already commented on this one. Anyway, I think that was probably the worst Darksun adventure of the whole bunch (I have them all). I don't remember exactly why I though it was that bad, though

 

[Knightfall]

I'm not sure if I already commented on this one. Anyway, I think that was probably the worst Darksun adventure of the whole bunch (I have them all). I don't remember exactly why I though it was that bad, though

The information I have on it is pretty slim. Plus, I remember feeling a sense of "blah" when I first read about it when it came out in '94.

Here's the blurb as posted on the TSR archive...

Most adventurers know better than to listen to rumors. But when rumors spreak of a magical forest blooming deep in the burning stretch of the Alluvial Sand Wastes, even the most battle-hardened gladiator takes notice. A mysterious summons has gone out to the humans and demihumans of the Tyr region, luring them to the new forest and promising Athas's salvation. Now your characters have heard the call - but will they heed the Forest Maker, ot seek to destroy her?

Designed for four to six characters of 11th to 13th level, Forest Maker brings player characters from the sun-baked streets of Tyr to the walled fortress of Altaruk and beyond. Forest Maker is a stand-alone adventure.

This latest in the DARK SUN series of adventures has been redesigned with standard-size booklets, one for the DUNGEON MASTER and one for the players. A third booklet provides a descriptive short story to set the tone of your adventure.

Black Spine interests me a lot more than Forest Maker.

Unknown to even the mightiest of sorceror-kings, a fire is stirring deep beneath the barren soil of Athas. Sheltered by the titanic bulk of the Black Spine mountains, a terrible force has ripped open the very fabric of time and space. Now a shimmering portal stands open and a long-forgotten enemy assembles its sinister forces to invade the kingdoms under the dark sun.

The only thing that stands in the way of this terrible fate is a band of heroes. Assembled from the four corners of this tortured world and bound together by the tangled cords of fate, they must face an enemy the likes of which they have never seen before. The odds are against them, but they dare not fail. The fate of the world is in their hands.

Black Spine is an adventure for 4 to 6 characters of 10th through 13th level. The previous flip-book modules (Black Flames, Merchant House of Amketch, and Marauders of Nibenay) precede this adventure, but they are not necessary to enjoy Black Spine.

Also...

What's your opinion of Black Flames, Merchant House of Amketch, and Marauders of Nibenay? I had at least one of the other flip-book adventure series... Freedom, I think. I didn't really like it that much.

 

[Castellan]

Hmm, the official fan site for Mystara, Vaults of Pandius, lists that The Endless Stair is explicitly for Mystara; specifically, that it is set in the Principalities of Glantri. Does the module mention specific Realms locations in it?

Well, it's definitely a Companion level adventure, but it's not tied to the setting in any real way -- I'm not sure that it mentions much in the way of locations, but the names are so Greenwoodian that you'll probably feel compelled to put it into FR instead of Mystara...

Despite its default setting, I'd say you could slap this adventure just about anywhere with very little (if any) modification.

 

[Knightfall]

Well, it's definitely a Companion level adventure, but it's not tied to the setting in any real way -- I'm not sure that it mentions much in the way of locations, but the names are so Greenwoodian that you'll probably feel compelled to put it into FR instead of Mystara...

Despite its default setting, I'd say you could slap this adventure just about anywhere with very little (if any) modification.

It sounds like it would be an interesting read. I've always liked Greenwood's writing when it comes to FR game material. His FR novels, not as much.

I've pretty much decided that anything connected to Mystara is likely going to end up on my wish list, at some point, unless the accessory or module is reputed to being "really awful."

Mystara is my second favorite classic D&D setting (*). Greyhawk is my favorite old school setting, the 1e/2e Forgotten Realms is a close third, and Blackmoor is fourth.

EDIT: I forgot Dragonlance, which is somewhere in between Greyhawk and Blackmoor. More than likely, as a D&D setting, Dragonlance would come after the Realms.

*I don't consider Dark Sun, Planescape, and Spelljammer to be truly old school. I'd have a really hard time picking a favorite amongst those three.

 

[Jhaelen]

What's your opinion of Black Flames, Merchant House of Amketch, and Marauders of Nibenay? I had at least one of the other flip-book adventure series... Freedom, I think. I didn't really like it that much.

I'll have to dig them out when I'm at home. I hardly remember which of them I've actually run. I _think_ we played Black Flames and Amketch, but not Marauders.

I started the campaign by running 'Freedom' and it worked quite well for us. However, it prematurely ended with a TPK... I also modified events slightly, since I wanted to keep some surprises for the players who had read the novels.

One thing I disliked about several Darksun modules was how you get to deal personally with several sorcerer kings at relatively low levels. This may also have been part of the reason for my dislike of Forestmaker.

 

[Knightfall]

I'll have to dig them out when I'm at home. I hardly remember which of them I've actually run. I _think_ we played Black Flames and Amketch, but not Marauders.

I started the campaign by running 'Freedom' and it worked quite well for us. However, it prematurely ended with a TPK... I also modified events slightly, since I wanted to keep some surprises for the players who had read the novels.

Looking forward to any insights you can give me... and I hate TPKs. I was in a player in one of those. It ended quickly. We didn't even get through the first encounter.

One thing I disliked about several Darksun modules was how you get to deal personally with several sorcerer kings at relatively low levels. This may also have been part of the reason for my dislike of Forestmaker.

Sigh.

The Sorcerer-Kings are described as being godlike, yet the novels (and it sounds like the adventures) treated them as if they weren't anything more than petty dictators with too much arcane and political power.

If I get a chance to run a Dark Sun v3.5 campaign, I guarantee you the Sorcerer-Kings will be dangerous, enigmatic rulers who don't have time for adventurers. They crave power and order the deaths of anyone who they think is a threat, even if they're not. They're evil and corrupt and a few of them are insane.

They are not just NPCs; they are god-like beings that have lived longer than a group of PCs could even imagine.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Looking forward to any insights you can give me... and I hate TPKs. I was in a player in one of those. It ended quickly. We didn't even get through the first encounter.


Sigh.

The Sorcerer-Kings are described as being godlike, yet the novels (and it sounds like the adventures) treated them as if they weren't anything more than petty dictators with too much arcane and political power.

If I get a chance to run a Dark Sun v3.5 campaign, I guarantee you the Sorcerer-Kings will be dangerous, enigmatic rulers who don't have time for adventurers. They crave power and order the deaths of anyone who they think is a threat, even if they're not. They're evil and corrupt and a few of them are insane.

They are not just NPCs; they are god-like beings that have lived longer than a group of PCs could even imagine.

EXACTLY!! that's why myself and a lot of other Dark Sun fans completely ignore the stupid mess TSR forced the setting down, by having novels and adventures madly change the setting, ruining it in fact, AND having it so that a bunch of low lvl noobs took out a bunch of near-deities...
Yea, riiiiight and any sane DM woudl allow that

Only very high level PCs would have a hope of killing ONE sorceror king, never mind six! Only the heroes: the PCs, should kill a villain of that might, because it's such "Oomph!" ya know? and killing Kalak and the having a DEMORACY in Tyr...WTH?!
disgustingly dumb as slavery, fear, oppression are all part of what makes Dark Sun so awesome, remove that and you have "Forgotten Desert" (tm)

My pal's two PCs had to flee Athas at lvl 7, because the gladiator decided to slaughter everyone ion an inn, when the mission was to kill just 1 person..this PO'd off King Kalak (bad for law and order) and so he perosnally ordered their deaths....they managed to leave via a complex deadly journey through the Abyss.

BLack Spine is pretty good, IMHO, but causes serious problems because of the Gate involved, ie other planar entry, and how that changes things if it's not niped in the bud before ANY problems arise, so a DM has to be damn careful.

 

[Knightfall]

Only very high level PCs would have a hope of killing ONE sorceror king, never mind six! Only the heroes: the PCs, should kill a villain of that might, because it's such "Oomph!" ya know? and killing Kalak and the having a DEMORACY in Tyr...WTH?!
disgustingly dumb as slavery, fear, oppression are all part of what makes Dark Sun so awesome, remove that and you have "Forgotten Desert" (tm)

Well, I like the City-State of Tyr book (*) and I don't mind that King Kalak could be killed. However, it should have been an epic adventure arc in which the PCs have the chance to kill him and that they might not succeed.

*I've included Tyr as it is described in that book in my homebrewed world.

My pal's two PCs had to flee Athas at lvl 7, because the gladiator decided to slaughter everyone ion an inn, when the mission was to kill just 1 person..this PO'd off King Kalak (bad for law and order) and so he perosnally ordered their deaths....they managed to leave via a complex deadly journey through the Abyss.

Run! Run for your lives... and your very souls. Plus, a Sorcerer-King has devoted followers who will hunt the PCs forever. Kalak doesn't need to worry about hunting you himself.

BLack Spine is pretty good, IMHO, but causes serious problems because of the Gate involved, ie other planar entry, and how that changes things if it's not niped in the bud before ANY problems arise, so a DM has to be damn careful.

So there is a chance the gate could stay open? That's a scary idea.

 

[Jhaelen]

The Sorcerer-Kings are described as being godlike, yet the novels (and it sounds like the adventures) treated them as if they weren't anything more than petty dictators with too much arcane and political power.

I agree.

So, let's see what I can say about the adventure modules:

- Freedom: already discussed. Even though it was a TPK I thought it was okay. I think it may actually have helped to set the right mood for Darksun.

- Road to Urik: played. The adventure starts with a lot of interesting roleplaying encounters. The pcs have to try to gain allies and support to build an army. The next part involves leading that army into battle. After a couple of encounters on the road, this was supposed to be played using the BattleSystem which I didn't use. Still, the adventure was quite nice.

- Arcane Shadows: not played. Basically it's about accompanying a theoretically super-powerful npc preserver that for some inexplicable reason needs the pcs to get somewhere to watch him get transformed into an avangion. Meh - avoid!

- Asticlian Gambit: not played. After a couple of encounters on the road, the pcs have a nice chat with the Oba of Gulg in her palace. Then they get imprisoned to be freed later on to be hunted by some spoiled nobles only to get caught again, this time by templars of Nibenay. After meeting Nibenay ... ah, whatever, this adventure sucks big time.

- Dragon's Crown: not played. This one is huge. It also doesn't use the innovative flip books. My feeling is that it's a bit too long to keep the players' interest. If it was condensed into a more focused, shorter adventure using only the really interesting and meaningful encounters and locations, it could be great fun, I guess.

- Black Flames: not played. So, there's this dragon (!) who needs the help of the pcs, see? He tricks them into exploring some ruins and get a mcguffin for him. Luckily Abalach-Re shows up to save the day. After believing themselves safe, the mortally wounded dragon returns *shudder* And there I thought Asticlian Gambit was bad...

- Merchant House of Amketch: played. The pcs are to find the source of nasty anti-psionic bugs and put an end to their trading. So they start their investigation by hiring on as caravan guards. This adventure was quite intriguing and the design makes good use of the flip-book format. A good one!

- Marauders of Nibenay: not played. Nibenay tries to destroy the Veiled Alliance chapter in his city, which results in freeing a mysterious entity that wrecks everything. They get to explore the hidden fortress looking for a way to return things back to normal. Naturally, the get to meet Nibenay and find out all his secrets ... Hmpf.

- Black Spine: partially played (outside of the Darksun campaign). The second mega-adventure, also not using the flip-book format. I liked this one better than Dragon's Crown. It's more streamlined and the later part is a pretty classical dungeon-crawl. I think, if you like githyanki, you'll like the adventure.

- Forestmaker: not played. Interestingly, this one's not using the flip-book format. I now know, why I didn't like it. Hint: it involves a sorcerer king in a, umm, prominent role.

 

[tylerthehobo]

I remember really liking The Endless Stair as a kid. I think it was a little bit more cosmic than some of the other CM adventures, if I recall... And Greenwood's gaming stuff was always up my alley, so having his first foray - why not?