Tell me why Druids are the most powerful class

[beaver1024]

Druids are overpowered because WoTC deliberately made divine casters more powerful because there was a perception that divine casters are underplayed.

 

[Victim]

You do realise don't you that Druids have Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic?

Yes, but they get those spells at higher levels (4 and 7).

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Druids are not the ultimate generalists.

They are just on another level above other classes. When you have a class that could conceivably outperform another in a field that its not necessarily supposed to be better at, that's when you know a class is powerful.

Now, I think the "roleplay versus roll-play" issue is very valid. Regardless of what you think about cities, caves, and nature, the fact remains that when you take a Druid and simply remove the roleplay and instead become "Todd... with druidic powers" then the class is a bit overpowered.

If you munchkin out, you'll find that a Druid can out do rogues and fighters in many of their speciality fields. Yes... you need to buff to do it. Yes... you probably can't do it as long as the fighter, or as quickly and on the spot as a rogue. But the fact remains that a druid can do it. She can also outperform the ranger in this way as well.

Druid is like the Cleric. The cleric is also slightly "powerful" when compared to the other base classes. The cleric's versatility isn't quite as high as the druid, I dont' think, but it's darn close. However, it's the "Theme" of the class that ultimately balances the thing out.

If you roll-play as "Bill... with clerical powers" then your cleric will probably kick tons of butt (assuming we're just using base classes against each other... no uber multi-classing... that's a whole different sausage). Same with "Todd... with druidic powers." But, regardless of how heavy or light your roleplay gets, if your DM keeps a close eye on things, then Druids and Clerics play out just fine.

For instance... it's highly unlikely that a protector of a nature would gladly summon natural animals into the thick of battle, and use them primarily as meat-shields! So, while the druid could conceivably summon tons of critters, it's probably leaving the realm of "Druid" if said character makes a routine of sacrificing animals in the name of her own survival. Yeah, I know I'm not thinking about any of those whacky Chaotic Evil psychopath druids that someone might enjoy playing, but I digress...

And likewise, while a Cleric could probably conjur up tons of critters himself, or go around detecting this this and that, and bursting out with flames on a whim, the DM has to decide whether the cleric is using his divine powers for the faith, or if "Bill" is simply flexing his dice.

Granted, campaigns like Eberron has clerics that are turncoats who can still use their powers, so that creates a conundrum. As the saying goes... YMMV.

But the class is cool so long as people play the role and not the roll. You don't have to LARP to do it right, but don't be surprised when you roll alot more than you role if the druid, as a base class, excels on the higher level.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

If you munchkin out, you'll find that a Druid can out do rogues and fighters in many of their speciality fields. Yes... you need to buff to do it. Yes... you probably can't do it as long as the fighter, or as quickly and on the spot as a rogue. But the fact remains that a druid can do it. She can also outperform the ranger in this way as well.

So?

It is not as if a munchkinned out superbuffed Wizard could not do the same. Not sure why we should make such a fuss about the Druid pulling this trick, too.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Yes, but they get those spells at higher levels (4 and 7).

You only probably noticed that charming little fact because you have actually played the class. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I am hearing a definite "this class is too powerful, but, oh no, I would never play one" tone to this discussion.

My experience with the Druid shows that the spell list is decidedly inferior to the Wizard/Sorceror and Cleric. Yes, there are many potentially excellent spells, but they are just not as reliable as what those other casters get to choose from. It is the little things that add up. Like delayed Dispel Magic and Delayed Cure Moderate Wounds. And those fabulous spells for situations that do not ever occur.

I am not going to hold my breath for the flora to get uppity.

Also Summoning. Good when it works, but you cannot count on getting to use it at all unless your DM coddles you.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Druids are overpowered because WoTC deliberately made divine casters more powerful because there was a perception that divine casters are underplayed.

See, that's the point, I don't see them as being overpowered. Even if it is true that they are the second best at almost everything in the game, it's not enough to want one in our group normally.

When we have a party of 5, 2 fighters, a cleric, a wizard, a rogue. If one of them dies, and comes back as a new character, the last thing we want them to be is a druid. MAYBE if one of the fighters dies we can make due without 2. But it's handy to be able to take damage from two different enemies at once.

However, if the cleric dies and comes back as a druid, it means the party is likely to die due to no healing. If the wizard goes away, the offensive power of the group just dropped dramatically. If the rogue goes away, we can no longer find traps, open locks, scout around, etc.

You are right that druids can be almost any of these rolls, but generally not well enough to match up with what the group needs.

 

[Felix]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I am hearing a definite "this class is too powerful, but, oh no, I would never play one" tone to this discussion.

Yep, mistaken. At least as far as I'm concerned.

And those fabulous spells for situations that do not ever occur.

Any good spellcaster wrangles the situation such that his spells have the most effect, including druids. Seriously, when you can fly, teleport, scry, etc., you should have control of the situation when it comes to combating enemies. So those situations don't occur either because the druid's player can't manage the DM, or doesn't think to try. Either way, it's not a fault of the class.

...the last thing we want them to be is a druid.

Well, I feel bad for you that you've never seen a druid kick mighty butt, and that you don't (won't?) see the power of the class. You're treating it like it's a divine Bard, "master of none" and all. Dude, it ain't that.

 

[mikebr99]

As for the Animal Growth thing, I'm still not convinced Animal Growth works on wildshaped druids. Wildshape is a Su ability that changes your form AND size otherwise you wouldn't be the same size as the bear your Wildshaped into, you'd just look like it. So, if Wildshape makes you large, you cannot use magic to further increase your size.

Huh??? When I can wildshape into a Dire Bear... that's what I get. The 'off the shelf' body of a Dire Bear.

I "gain the ability to turn myself into any [insert size, based on Druid level] animal and back again once per day... functions like polymorph... which functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form..." No mention of size change.



You change form... any size difference is just a derivative of the form you choose.

Mike

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

You change form... any size difference is just a derivative of the form you choose.

Yep, however, by definition if you were medium sized before and you are large sized now, you are larger. Therefore, by common sense and logic, your size has changed.

Plus, it's a little bit powerful to let Druid animal growth themselves. Thus, once again adding to the impression that Druids are the most powerful class.

Like I've also said, the Living Greyhawk campaign has already made their ruling on this, that if your size changes for any reason, including wildshape, you can't be made larger through other magic.

 

[mikebr99]

Yep, however, by definition if you were medium sized before and you are large sized now, you are larger. Therefore, by common sense and logic, your size has changed.

Plus, it's a little bit powerful to let Druid animal growth themselves. Thus, once again adding to the impression that Druids are the most powerful class.

Like I've also said, the Living Greyhawk campaign has already made their ruling on this, that if your size changes for any reason, including wildshape, you can't be made larger through other magic.

Would you care to quote a rule??? And not an LG house rule...


A Druid takes the form of a [insert ANY valid Animal form here]... unless you can quote something specific, [insert ANY valid Animal form here] are valid targets for Animal Growth. Therefore, Druids wildshaped into [insert ANY valid Animal form here] are also valid targets for Animal Growth.


Mike