Tell players target save DCs or let them sweat?

[Malakye]

I make them sweat. I also keep a list of each players' spot and listen modifiers so I can secretly make those rolls. I find that telling a player to make a spot check ruins the surprise if they fail. I also think it is a lot to ask of a player to pretend there was something he didn't see.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Formerly I wouldn't say but to reaffirm the trust from my players I am going to let them know for a while.

 

[Tonguez]

I give Reflex DCs - and let the players describe the results (phew reaching out a hand Mani grabs a root and arrests his fall...) Not always so free with Fort and Will saves

Never tell AC, HP or Damage (take the players down to HP 1 and never let them know until the next hit bowls them over is my motto!)

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

I let them know by about round 4 or so. By then they have a pretty good idea anyway and it speeds things up a bit more.

I do the same thing with saves, by about the third or fourth time they need to roll against it I let them know - again they already have guessed it already or it speeds up combat just that touch more.

I give them the information earlier if they haven't succeeded at all and are starting to think it's a "no-win" encounter. I do this to show them that it is eminently hittable (or resistable), just that they have not rolled high enough or aren't really attacking it from the best angle (flanking, grappling, touch attack effects, held actions, AoO, etc).

- Ma'at

 

[Richards]

I not only don't tell them the save DCs, sometimes I don't even tell them what save they're rolling for, or even if it's a saving throw they're rolling. (It might be a Spot check, or a Listen check, or whatever.) "I need everyone to roll a d20," is sometimes all they get. With only two players (albeit four PCs), it's easy enough for me to do the math quickly and painlessly enough to come up with whether they were successful or not while leaving them completely in the dark as to what just happened.

Of course, in a situation where it's pretty obvious what the roll is for (like when a monstrous scorpion just struck a PC with its tail stinger), I'll 'fess up and ask for a Fortitude save or whatever - no need being sneaky when it's pointless to do so.

Johnathan

 

[Luddite]

In my group, the DMs don't realy give out the AC at the begining of the battle, but by round two or three we have a good idea. At that point it isn't uncommon for the DM (myself included) just just announce the AC and finish up the combat.

IMO, the Dramactic tension of a combat is about 80% in the first three rounds of combat. First round, you don't know much about the opponet. By the second round you get a good feeling how much it will cost to "win" the combat, or if fleeing should be an option. By the third round, (if the combat isn't over) it is now just a mop up exercise.

Maybe one combat per adventure has tension for more then five rounds, but those are the "Boss" monsters.

-The Luddite

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

I never give ACs, but I have usually given Save DCs - but I think I'll probably stop doing that too. It is more interesting to leave that as an open question - leaves more to the player's imagination too.

I used to be that way until I played with a DM who did this and we caught him altering the target numbers based on how much he liked (personally) the player in question. Fudging for story I can see - but adding +4 or more to the AC, DC or the saving throw of the creature just because it's Fred's mage (and Fred annoys you for some strange reason) who's casting the spell is not only unfair it's stupid - especially when someone else with the same mechanical stats rolled the same thing and succeeded.

Last session the same DM decided that the mage needed to make a ranged touch attack to place his fireball, citing the "through an arrow slit" example. The "slit" he was aiming at was 15ft wide by 25+ft tall and had a dragon on the other side. Archers had no problem making attacks (despite the fact that if this were an arrow slit situation, they would be missing due to the cover bonus to AC).

 

[Nightfall]

I feel it depends on the instance. Certainly if the player might feel or see what's happening to them, I would say what the DC is. AC is something people figure out on their own after 2-3-4 rounds of combat. The other stuff I try to keep out just in case.

 

[shilsen]

I tend to do it based on saving time. If one or two people are rolling saves, I'll ask them what they roll. If half a dozen people are doing so, I'll give them the DC, rather than going through them one by one.

I'll hold off on giving someone's AC for the same reason. Only one PC is rolling attacks at a time, so I just listen to the attack rolls and say what hits or doesn't. The players work out what the AC is soon enough. If the AC changes for a discernible reason, I'll describe it, e.g. "he seems to be focusing on defense and blocking your blows instead of attacking as well as he could" (for someone using Expertise or fighting defensively). But I won't give the precise numbers.

 

[A'koss]

Oh, I never, never, never, never, ever reveal target DCs, ACs or reveal any of my dice rolls to players. As a few others have pointed out, it's what gives the DM the flexibility to fudge the numbers and close rolls to keep the campaign going, not to mention helping create a sense of tension in the game.


A'koss.