Tell players target save DCs or let them sweat?

[Pielorinho]

Although I can see the value of hiding DCs, sometimes telling the players their target number can actually increase dramatic tension.

Two examples: once, players IMC were racing the clock to find out where a certain wizard had run off to, and they knew the important clues were in his demon-protected laboratory. The demon couldn't get out at them, but they were having a heckuva time hurting it. Finally, almost completely out of spells, they tried a last-ditch effort: they cast Dismissal on it. I told the player point-blank that he'd have to make it past the demon's SR (they already knew that most spells rolled off the demon's back), and the demon would then get a save. To up the tension, I told the player he'd need to roll a 25 on his caster level check -- a very difficult number for a ninth-level caster to hit.

When he rolled a natural 18, the party erupted in cheers. I then told the players that the demon would succeed on his save if I rolled a 7 or higher; when I rolled a 3, there was applause. The scene would've been fun without their knowing the target numbers, but knowing the numbers made it more exciting, IMO.

Example 2: in the last session, the PCs fought the highest-level spellcaster they've yet encountered, a druid who was throwing around firestorms. When I told them they needed to roll a reflex save DC 24, their huge eyes and "oh, CRAP!" imprecations made it all worthwhile: knowing the number they were looking for drove home to them that they weren't dealing with a Johnny-come-lately.

So sometimes I tell the targets and sometimes I don't, based in part on whether I figure it'll ramp up the tension.

Daniel

 

[Numion]

Although I can see the value of hiding DCs, sometimes telling the players their target number can actually increase dramatic tension.

I agree completely. Most of the time I tell DCs. I don't know if it's dramatic in our group but it damn well is funny to see the look on the players faces when:

"The dragon exhales an infernal jet of flame upon you. Ref save DC 38 to avoid"

Thats pure fun on the DM. In a same way it's good to withold ACs. It's nice to interrupt a player who gets a total of 43 to attack when he's rolling for damage:

"what do you mean 'don't roll for damage'"

"43's a miss"

 

[Kichwas]

I never reveal DCs to anything.

Every now and then a new player or a player who's missed a session or two asks the DC when told to roll for something. I just smile back and tell them I'll let them know if they made it - if they need to know.

So no ACs, skill check DCs, save DCs, or whatever.

Since I roll openly on the table, sometimes it's obvious for an opposed roll - but one trick here is that I'll roll that opposed check after the player rolls.

 

[CyberSpyder]

(take the players down to HP 1 and never let them know until the next hit bowls them over is my motto!)

Wait, you mean you don't reveal how much damage has been done to the player characters?

I can't imagine that's a common decision...

 

[Tonguez]

Wait, you mean you don't reveal how much damage has been done to the player characters?

I can't imagine that's a common decision...

Nope - I'll tell them they're reeling with pain, that ever muscle aches and a dark glaze across their eyes makes it difficult to concentrate, that blood is pouring from their gaping wounds and they feel feint and close to exhaution - I will not say you have 2 HP left and the next blow will most likely knock you unconcious

 

[Kichwas]

I wish I could get away with keeping hit points secret, but that's too much information to keep track of.

In my MnM game it's a non issue, since they use a damage save rather than hit points - when you go down is never a clear cut issue.

 

[Nighthawk]

Whatever the playing group decides is what I will go with. My personal preference is not to divulge the target numbers, whether I am gming or playing. As a player, I prefer not to know any of numbers, to be honest. I like the mystery of it.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Nope - I'll tell them they're reeling with pain, that ever muscle aches and a dark glaze across their eyes makes it difficult to concentrate, that blood is pouring from their gaping wounds and they feel feint and close to exhaution - I will not say you have 2 HP left and the next blow will most likely knock you unconcious

We used to play this way, but I got tired of having to keep track of everything. We had a large group back then. When we started playing 3E, we had a small group and I thought about doing it again. But now the group has grown, and is almost as large as it used to be.

I like the cinematic quality of keeping the damage secret, and the uncertainty it adds to the game. And it helped out if you had to fudge things. But I dislike the record keeping involved.

Otherwise, I let 'em sweat. I never give AC, and very rarely give target DCs. If I have the whole group make a saving throw, I wait until they roll, then say something like, "Who beat 15? Raise your hands. OK, everyone else failed their save," and then describe the results.

In fact, I often don't even tell them whether they've succeed on a skill check or not. If they are trying to disable a trap, for instance, I let them roll and then say, "OK, you think you disabled it." Unless it is obvious from their roll that they failed, then I'll say, "You had some trouble with it, and you aren't sure whether you disabled it or not."

That uncertainty keeps things exciting.

 

[Pants]

I usually give out the AC's of the mooks in a game, namely Gnolls, Orcs, Goblins, Dretches, etc. However, I very rarely give out AC's for the tough opponents, I will only do so if I find that I'm taking too much time to resolve actions.

I also very rarely give out the DC's of stuff, but I do sometimes for fun and to see the expressions on their faces.

"Roll a Fortitude Save, DC 26."
"Holy f**k!"
"... Can I use my Improved Evasion on the Fort save?"

 

[-Warlord-]

Not only would I not tell what the DC for the save is, I wouldn't tell whether the saved succeeded or failed if it doesn't have an immediate result.

Disease is a very good example of this. The player won't know for sure if the dire rat caused a disease untill it takes effect or not.

Also a good way to add a little more paranoia when they meet a critter they don't know. I did this with a spinagon once. The players didn't recognize it. When I discribed one of the players being hit with one of the critters barbs, the player reacted with a delightful " AHH...I got hit!" that just demanded for a nice fortsave. It got the players more worried about this critter....maybe it had poison on those barbs? Of course there was no poison, and no result on a low roll of the dice, but they didn't know that.