Terminator as an RPG...HELP needed

[Aries_Omega]

I have to admit the fan made Terminator supplement is VERY impressive and is a huge argument in favor of using d20 Modern. I have that supplement and a few others from that site.

The argument for using Storyteller is it's new. VERY easy to create characters and run. Also the replayability. If this pans out I can use Storyteller as an excuse to play other games such as Vampire.

I am a HUGE CP 2020 fan and was thinking of using it since she also has played it but I wanted to try something new. As for other systems I own a few like M&M and True20 but not Savage Worlds.

For those who have played and/or ran Storyteller...show me your take on the Terminator. Please post up a statblock on how YOU would do it. Would you give them lots of armor? More then 5 dots in Strength?

 

[Aus_Snow]

As for other systems I own a few like M&M

Awesome! This would be my first choice, as it so happens.

The first M&M 2e takes on Terminator types I found: T-800 and T-1000. . . but, suffice it to say, there are many. And it's wonderfully easy to stat things out.

One system to rule them all. . . Yes, I's a fanboi. So I'll shut up now.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I have to admit the fan made Terminator supplement is VERY impressive and is a huge argument in favor of using d20 Modern. I have that supplement and a few others from that site.

It is pretty interesting. A fun side note, that document is also useful if you decide to run it as an M&M series (I vastly prefer 2nd edition but others prefer 1st). It gives you some baseline abilities for the various terminator models and the power level you'd expect from people from that dark future.

The argument for using Storyteller is it's new. VERY easy to create characters and run. Also the replayability. If this pans out I can use Storyteller as an excuse to play other games such as Vampire.

It sounds like you really, really want to try this as a Storyteller game. The system is about as old as 3.5 D&D, so I'll assume you mean 'new to me and my group' rather than 'completely new'.
As I said, the new WoD system is great for humans but poor for anything else. Vampires, werewolves, and everything else feels really wonky; even mages (humans with magic) feel off.
That said, my Storyteller terminator would probably look like this. (This is a combat chassis, not an infiltration model.)
Attributes:
Int 1 Str 4 Pres 0
Wit 2 Dex 2 Man 0
Res 1 Sta 3 Com 3
Skills: Brawl 2, Drive 1, Firearms 3, Stealth 1, Weaponry 2
Merits: Eidetic Memory
Derived: Size 5, Speed 11, Initiative +5, Defense 2, Armor see below, Health 4/8 (mook/non-mook)
Special: Armor Chassis - treated as wearing armor 3/4 (bulletproof), this model only takes bashing damage from firearms.
He's Not Human - takes no penalties from bashing damage, however it can wrap around into lethal damage.
Attacks: Plasma Rifle 10, Rifle butt 8, Brawling 6

Simple, deadly, and capable of destroying most humans (their guns probably do 4 dice of energy damage [which slices through bulletproof armor], maybe 6 if you want to make them be death incarnate) while still being cut down by well armed folks with plasma rifles.
By comparison, a modern human soldier would have Dex 2, Firearms 2, a 4 damage ballistic rifle, and a 2/3 bulletproof armor. And 4/7 health dots. He'd have a dice pool of 4 to shoot the terminator (all bashing damage), while the terminator would have a dice pool of 6 to shoot the soldier (all lethal). Advantage: terminator.

Infiltration models would get more dots of mental attributes, social attributes, skills and merits. Just enough to do what they were built to do, or what they've already done. The problem with statting up terminators is the tendency to make them be too powerful, especially in something like Storyteller.

I am a HUGE CP 2020 fan and was thinking of using it since she also has played it but I wanted to try something new. As for other systems I own a few like M&M and True20 but not Savage Worlds.

I'm not a fan of savage worlds, though I can see why people like it. I prefer its ancestor systems by PEG, namely Deadlands and Hell on Earth, but it could work.
You already know that my preferred system would be M&M 2e.
If you think CP 2020 would work really well and you know the system will be well received then it may be the perfect choice. On the other hand, this is a great opportunity to go with something else you're enthusiastic about. In which case, choose one of the systems you're really enthused about and try working out the rules; if they work well (enough) then get your campaign ready.

Good Luck!

 

[jezter6]

M&M with the right PL and points would probably be very good for it. I prefer True20 as a simpler (to me) rules set, but I can see where the issue can get wonky with construct style PCs.

As long as your player(s) are all human - any system should work fine. If you're trying to allowe terminators AND humans in the same party - balance becomes very difficult, as you must have near super-human PCs to be on par with the terminator, which makes many normal human archetypes grossly 'overdone' to be fun anymore.

IE: take however many points/levels/whatever to build a terminator, then try to build a normal EMT at that same level - you end up with a high level human with the same attack skills as a fresh-out of bootcamp solider, even if the EMT has no real firearms training.

Edit: If you want rules lite and have the ability to 'just wing it' - then Microlite20 or one of those variants might be cool as well. Just variant enough to keep you on your toes with a slightly new system, but compatible enough to cram in most d20 supplements in some easy manner.

 

[Aries_Omega]

Tinkering...P.E.A.C.H. this please

Please tell me what you think, rate this and help me improve this. This is what I came up with. I figured if the good guys could reprogram a Terminator to send them back in time to protect someone, Skynet would send one back to protect someone that would help construct it. With that in mind I made this....

Background: Vince is a T-888, MK 300 version. It is a male infiltrator model that looks like your average 20 something European-American mix male. He is fairly nondescript but well built and strong looking. He was sent back by Skynet to protect a college student named Hector Pineda who will be the one that discovers the use of the alloy coltan for military application, particularly for use with Terminators. He currently is masquerading as his room mate and has hacked the school computer system to always give him classes either with him or nearby so he is within earshot. He is always near Hector and protects him from bullies and from those who would do him harm. Vince's programing prevents him from using weapons unless weapons are used against him or Hector. He is to respond with equal force with the use equal force and rarely uses a full strength punch. Skynet programmed him this way to keep him from coming up on Tech Com's radar as a Terminator.

Stats

Intelligence: 2 Wits: 2 Presence: 2
Strength: 4 Dexterity: 3 Stamina: 3
Presence: 2 Manipulation: 2 Composure: 2

Mental Skills: Academics:2, Computer:2, Crafts:1, Investigation:1, Science:1
Physical Skills: Athletics:2, Brawl:2, Drive:1, Firearms:3, Stealth:1, Weaponry:2
Social Skills: Intimidation:2, Streetwise:1, Subterfuge:2
Other Traits: Eidetic Memory
Health:12
Willpower: 4
Size: 7 (looks like a 5)
Speed: 14
Initiative Mod: 5
Defense:2

Terminator Abilities:

He's Not Human - Takes no penalties from bashing damage, however it can wrap around into lethal damage. Does not feel pain and takes no pain penalty. Considered to be wearing hearing protection without negative penalties. Unaffected by gas or biological agents. He has no fear and is immune to attacks based on emotions unless it can affect machines as well. When he does have to make a roll he has a +5 to all Composure rolls to remain, calm cool and collective.

Cybernetic Learning Computer - May earn experience points to improve skills but not physical attributes. Immune to mental control abilities unless it can also effect machines as well.

Will He Ever Die - Has a natural Armor Rating of 4/6. May function with any missing body part. When brought to 0 Health if the body is not destroyed completely, a Terminator may make a Stamina+Resolve roll vs. 15 every round to reroute power and continue operation.

Mag Sight - Range penalties at medium range with any ranged weapon are ignored and 1/2 for long range. Ignore penalties for fighting in the dark at medium range.

Nightvision - Cannot use with other forms of sight. Ignores the Fighting Blind penalties, At long range, reduces the modifier to a -3 penalty. At medium range, ignores the normal Fighting Blind penalties. Short-range shots are performed at -1 penalty.

Thermal Sight - Cannot use with other forms of sight. At long range penalty is at -1. No range penalty at medium or closer. No bonus to target objects that are not warm, living targets.

Walking Polygraph - Can measure the human body response to detect falsehoods gaining a +5 bonus to detect deception. May use Wits rather then Intelligence for the roll as well.

Voice Changer - Once a Terminator can hear a voice for more then a minute it can imitate the voice gaining a +6 to Deception rolls to be able to pass for another person's voice.

Hearing: Gains a +3 to listen to audio cues and can hear things from a greater distance.

---------------------------------------------------------------
For those who played oWoD Mage and remember the Hit Mark cyborgs. Can someone tell me what book to find them? I know when our ST used them it was one of the few thing that gave werewolves a run for their money.

 

[Aries_Omega]

Help

I know I should be patient and all since there was a holiday and all...but does no one wanna give me any luv with this post? I bear my nerdiness and all hoping someone will give me pointers and nothing Makes me sad. Oh well...no takers on the Terminator?

 

[ValhallaGH]

Interesting story on this guy. Pretty scary build, but only appropriately scary, and it seems almost rules legal. I'm glad you didn't build him like a starting hero (such a common mistake).

Was the armor supposed to be bulletproof? If so, you should add that note to it.

Looking at him, I see a few issues.
Health Dots: 12? Really? Where did he get those from? Health is Size (7) plus Stamina (3). Where did the extra 2 come from? Did he originally have a 5 stamina?

Size: 7. So, he's got 10 health dots (humans max out at 11, if they are Giant Sized, 10 if they aren't), armor 4 against non-firearms attacks and armor 6 against firearms attacks. Unless someone is shooting at him in melee range, they subtract 6 dice from their pool. Untrained people will have a chance die, and so will most trained people. Only exceptionally skilled people have a chance to do any actual damage to him. If he needs to be that tough then so be it, but 8 health dots is probably sufficient.

Will He Ever Die - Has a natural Armor Rating of 4/6. May function with any missing body part. When brought to 0 Health if the body is not destroyed completely, a Terminator may make a Stamina+Resolve roll vs. 15 every round to reroute power and continue operation.

Why is he making a Stamina+Resolve roll versus 15? Shouldn't he be making a Stamina+Resolve roll each round, with wound penalties and maybe a few other penalties? This would be that 'subtracting dice from the pool rather than modifying the result needed' thing that I mentioned previously. If he gets a single success then he's able to operate that round, but he can have his dice pool reduced down to a chance die by various penalties.

Why not tie his voice imitator to his Eidetic Memory? Just a thought.

 

[Aries_Omega]

Interesting story on this guy. Pretty scary build, but only appropriately scary, and it seems almost rules legal. I'm glad you didn't build him like a starting hero (such a common mistake).

Thanks I didn't think it would work that way.

Was the armor supposed to be bulletproof?If so, you should add that note to it.

At first I was going to go with this...but I think about it more and more I want it so that the average schmo can't hurt him but someone who can handle a large caliber weapon could potentially slow it down. A military heavy weapon could injure it but nothing too lasting. Stuff that is cutting edge stuff aka future weapons that Tech Com has can take one down. I have some more things I was looking at below.

Looking at him, I see a few issues.
Health Dots: 12? Really? Where did he get those from? Health is Size (7) plus Stamina (3). Where did the extra 2 come from? Did he originally have a 5 stamina?

Size: 7. So, he's got 10 health dots (humans max out at 11, if they are Giant Sized, 10 if they aren't), armor 4 against non-firearms attacks and armor 6 against firearms attacks. Unless someone is shooting at him in melee range, they subtract 6 dice from their pool. Untrained people will have a chance die, and so will most trained people. Only exceptionally skilled people have a chance to do any actual damage to him. If he needs to be that tough then so be it, but 8 health dots is probably sufficient.


Why is he making a Stamina+Resolve roll versus 15? Shouldn't he be making a Stamina+Resolve roll each round, with wound penalties and maybe a few other penalties? This would be that 'subtracting dice from the pool rather than modifying the result needed' thing that I mentioned previously. If he gets a single success then he's able to operate that round, but he can have his dice pool reduced down to a chance die by various penalties.

Why not tie his voice imitator to his Eidetic Memory? Just a thought.

The answer to all the above is I am a noob at nWoD and didn't read things better. Now that I have better understanding I retract some of that.

I was thinking that too. I was thumbing through the "Antagonist" source book and found the entry on "zombies" and was doing some thinking (I know dangerous) and though...."Terminators their computers are not set to think on their own, when they are not set to read/write like when they are not being used for infiltration they are basically a very fast moving zombies". I was thinking to use the rules in that book to get a feel of how to do a system for them. I came up with a few things...dunno how it will work. I liked how with zombies they had the "aspect" system to make different types and I think I may try to do something similar for Terminators since not all are the same. A T-800 is different from a T-1000 and a T-X, but somewhat similar to a newer T-888. I'd imagine a T-800 or T-888 set to "no meat sheath, dummy kill humans mode" would be like a zombie and one set to "I am encased in meat and will infiltrate humans" would be a bit more like a PC.

Another thing I was thinking to better represent their "unkillableness" at least for the ones in a human sheath they have health levels like a human...but after that you deal with 10 Body Integrity Levels and their Armor Rating. Once there is no Health they don't have a shell...or at least none to pass them as human. Also Terminators do not have a Defense rating...or at least a poor one unless they have an "advantage" that lets them react more humanlike instead of like a bot. Notice how in the movies the older models don't really move to avoid hits, newer ones do.

 

[ValhallaGH]

At first I was going to go with this...but I think about it more and more I want it so that the average schmo can't hurt him but someone who can handle a large caliber weapon could potentially slow it down. A military heavy weapon could injure it but nothing too lasting. Stuff that is cutting edge stuff aka future weapons that Tech Com has can take one down. I have some more things I was looking at below.

Bulletproof doesn't mean immune to bullets. It just means that bullets do Bashing damage, not Lethal. It's sort of like being a Vampire, though most armored vests can be shot around (heads, legs, arms, etc.), making called shots useful when shooting past body armor. This is explained in the core book at the section on armor (page 166). I think it's the perfect mechanic to represent what you want.
Average schmoe with a sniper rifle (or shotgun) has a die pool of 5. 4 for the rifle (very high power gun), 2 for dexterity, -1 for no dots in firearms. Against my build, he'd have 1 die that did bashing damage. Against yours he would have a chance die that did lethal. Either one is scarily tough, though mine will recover much faster.
A talented expert (special forces sniper) will probably have a 4 dex and 4 in firearms. He'll also have a scary rifle (barrett light 50) that does 5 dice (8 again). That's 13 dice normally, 9 bashing against mine, 7 lethal against yours. Yours will probably take a nasty wound that will take days to recover, and might be able to take a couple more hits before dying. Mine will take more damage on average, but it will be all bashing, allowing him to recover in a couple of hours and still have no dice penalties.

I came up with a few things...dunno how it will work. I liked how with zombies they had the "aspect" system to make different types and I think I may try to do something similar for Terminators since not all are the same. A T-800 is different from a T-1000 and a T-X, but somewhat similar to a newer T-888. I'd imagine a T-800 or T-888 set to "no meat sheath, dummy kill humans mode" would be like a zombie and one set to "I am encased in meat and will infiltrate humans" would be a bit more like a PC.

A couple of things:
1) Dude, it's Storyteller! It works like you want it to, period, the end. Any and every rule is changeable by you whenever you want, however you want. Especially when it comes to not-the-characters. Villains use whatever systems you want them to. Things like the zombie "aspects" are just simple tools to help you tweak your villains to do what you want them to do.
2) Generally, characters don't get defense against Firearms attacks. This is why guns are dangerous. Unless you're in melee range, the only protections against guns are concealment, cover, and body armor. This is why Terminators don't dodge bullets, they can't do it any better than a normal person.
3) Defense is the worst of Dex or Wits. If you want schmuck terminators to have a bad defense then give them a 1 in either of those stats and you're done. This will reinforce their schmuck nature, as they'll either be inobservant or poor shots (generally).
4) Roll out a few test sessions with the bulletproof chassis. You'll be surprised just how long those fellas will last, even the ones that are cinematic mooks (4 health levels). Non-laser guns will be almost useless (but not quite), and in melee the terminator will be essentially invincible thanks to Defense plus Armor.
5) Extra health levels for most models is just turning them into an unstoppable juggernaut that will kill the entire party easily. A couple of extra levels (two, maybe three, like you did with Vince) will be fine, giving the terminator enough time to escape an ambush or turn the tables (as appropriate) while still making them beatable. Now, having extra health levels for after their meat shell has been blasted off can be fun, from time to time, but is generally a poor design. A better approach is some form of one-time healing, a kind of 'death throe'. Something like this.

Utter Determination - When this terminator is killed while carrying out its mission, roll its Willpower one minute later (include wound penalties). The result is damage levels healed, as the terminator reroutes emergency systems to get one last chance at completing its mission. This ability can only be used once without major repairs (-4 Craft roll, extended, 12 successes) being performed, and most terminators don't survive the situation that forced this use.

That's my input, anyway. I hope it's still helpful.

 

[Committed Hero]

There is an indy game called Prime Time Adventures which is designed to emulate most TV shows. I imagine as long as the character dynamics are important to your game, it doesn't matter what sort of stats a Terminator has.

Starman, it's good to see your pixels again.

Here is the publisher's website.