D&D General Thaco the angry clown... really?

[theCourier]

Is it a major issue? Seems more like 3-4 people complaining about it in an internet forum.

 

[Jahydin]

Now that I think about it, if my hunch is right, it is kind of funny. It would mean they're not making fun of all grogs, but a certain kind, like the ones that hang out on his forums and grump about how terrible modern RPGs are. Considering the amount of hate they generate, this would be a pretty light-hearted jab in comparison.

 

[Egon Spengler]

1) You are the third person to try to explain THAC0 as if it were easy in a third entirely different way and it still doesn't sound as simple as roll plus bonus, compare to DC.

It's literally the thing you're saying it's harder than. THAC0 is a DC.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Is it a major issue? Seems more like 3-4 people complaining about it in an internet forum.

I think this thread is mostly about laughing at those 3-4 people.

 

[happyhermit]

...
And, here we are, ten years later, and a teeny, tiny joke, a bit of a send up that's not even really mean spirited, becomes a major issue.

In what way is this a major issue? If literally anyone is concerned by something is it a major issue or is the threshold a dozen people, I have seen more outrage for almost every other tiny aspect of D&D than this, maybe I am missing it.

Sorry folks, but, if this joke gets your back up, perhaps a little self assessment might be in order. Why does this joke bother you?

For me, probably due to things I witnessed growing up, I have always been particularly sensitive (probably overly at times) when people who have the power in a situation make fun of people who very obviously don't. Comedians, writers making "offensive" jokes, especially about people like me, is one of my favorite things but when the person has control of something and is mocking those who don't it becomes rapidly less funny to me.

This joke is very obviously not about me, I have introduced tons of people to ttrpgs with 5e. I think Chris Perkins is great, loved watching AI back in the day, but he very clearly sees himself as very different from the people being made fun of here, so I doubt this joke is in any way self-deprecating.

Which is fine I hope? It seems like some people think expressing mild concern is not ok because they see it as tantamount to the outrage over things like the Warlord or magic item creation rules, or any other things that have seen enough internet griping to make my eyes bleed.

 

[jasper]

WotC has a new NPC in it's latest book, Witchlight.

Thaco the CN retired clown who doesn't want people touching his stuff and hates kids.

Very subtle. Like a brick through a window.

What type of Bozo would think Thaco is a great name for a clown. Homey don't play this stuff. Before I get the Ball rolling to turn the creators into a Red Skeleton, soupy their sales, do a Ceasar on their backs, bean them over their heads and break the Pinkys of their kids, this does not get them any Chuckles, i think their humor is kind of Krusty but I do Carebell about a nice easter egg.

 

[happyhermit]

I mean, I LOVED the first season of Stranger Things, but the "mouth breather" thing made me a bit uncomfortable, because I know people who were mercilessly mocked for that exact thing (they had serious sinus problems). Doesn't mean I didn't love the show or that it's a "major issue", just not something I really enjoyed.

 

[ad_hoc]

I mean, I LOVED the first season of Stranger Things, but the "mouth breather" thing made me a bit uncomfortable, because I know people who were mercilessly mocked for that exact thing (they had serious sinus problems). Doesn't mean I didn't love the show or that it's a "major issue", just not something I really enjoyed.

Yeah I had a severely deviated septum for most of my life. That was just a poorly considered way for the kids to mock the bullies.

I've never been persecuted for mouth breathing though.

I haven't had to fear being murdered, beaten, or sexually assaulted.

I haven't needed to worry about how I was going to feed and shelter myself, etc.

People complain about people being offended by things and having thin skin when those jokes and remarks are literally life threatening.

And then turn around and say they are being oppressed because a clown in a story references an old game.

The privilege on display is just remarkable.

 

[Azuresun]

Yeah I had a severely deviated septum for most of my life. That was just a poorly considered way for the kids to mock the bullies.

I've never been persecuted for mouth breathing though.

I haven't had to fear being murdered, beaten, or sexually assaulted.

I haven't needed to worry about how I was going to feed and shelter myself, etc.

People complain about people being offended by things and having thin skin when those jokes and remarks are literally life threatening.

And then turn around and say they are being oppressed because a clown in a story references an old game.

The privilege on display is just remarkable.

While I think the griping about this is overblown....shall we not do the misery poker thing? Just skip past it?

 

[Bedrockgames]

I can't imagine being upset about this, but also can't imagine finding it funny.

Maybe there is more in the actual entry but just going by the initial description it isn't particularly funny. I hope they at least made it a last name, like he's Morgan Thaco or something. If he's just named Thac0, it's a bit too much of a straight line I think. Also if you are going to make a character who is the embodiment of Thac0 he ought to have other characteristics beyond grognard stuff. He should always do things the hard way: takes stairs rather than elevators, walks three days instead of teleports because he doesn't trust it (a bit like Bones or something). That and he should be a prude with an aqua net hairdo

 

[Bedrockgames]

I mean at the end of the day its a joke about ageism (lol those old gamers and their gatekeeping in D&D), which I suppose is on the low end of "groups not to make fun of".

I am a grognard, starting to feel old. I don't particularly mind people making fun of grogards or old gamers. I don't think it is a moral issue at all. The only thing I like is for humor to be funny. This didn't land with me, at least as described (I am sure it may be different if I read the actual entry). So I think the humor could have been done better but I don't think it is some kind of sin for them to gently prod Thac0 in this way (and presumable prod those of us who cleave to the old ways).

 

[ad_hoc]

While I think the griping about this is overblown....shall we not do the misery poker thing? Just skip past it?

This isn't the oppression olympics if that is what you mean because it isn't oppression at all.

 

[Scribe]

Just a thought, but they might be poking fun at the RPGPundit, one of the consultants they removed from the 5e Players Handbook. He checks off just about every box, including always having a pipe in hand.

Well....there it is. /meme

 

[Imaculata]

Its funny to laugh at small things that people get really unreasonably upset about. This thread is the reason Thaco the Clown exists.

I'm a longtime 2e and 3e player, and I find it funnier now that I've read this thread. I'm looking forward to a future npc that makes fun of 3e and 4e.

 

[darjr]

….well played!

Why do I get the feeling this was a setup?

 

[darjr]

I think most people here in this thread are laughing with WotC or are just trying to figure out the whole thing. I think there is a chicken dinner winner in the thread.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't think it was inherently impossible to make the jump from attack matrices straight to BAB. I do think it would have been impossible to make that jump in 2E, however, because 2E was trying to stay more-or-less backwards compatible. Going to BAB means flipping the direction of armor class, which in turn means all monster and NPC statblocks using the old system are invalidated.

It was probably already mentioned, but they almost did exactly that. And it’s trivial to flip ACs. 20 - DAC = AAC. Same with THAC0 and BAB. 20 - THAC0 = BAB. Done. Put that in your conversion notes and you’re set.

 

[Olrox17]

Yeah, this isn't great. I never played 2e or used Thaco, I'm not a grognard and I love seeing the game evolve, so I don't feel personally attacked by this, but calling someone a "clown" has become more and more insulting in the recent years, which I'm sure the people at Wotc are aware of.

To target a whole subsect of the hobby (that perhaps isn't currently paying its dues to Wotc), calling them clowns for their gaming preferences and assigning negative stereotypes to them, feels petty.

I'd be similarly unimpressed if they created "Max Min the jester", a pedantic retired lawyer with an encyclopedic knowledge of laws of the universe, that somehow can't tie his own shoes because, in his own words, he "didn't spend enough points on that".

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah, this isn't great. I never played 2e or used Thaco, I'm not a grognard and I love seeing the game evolve, so I don't feel personally attacked by this, but calling someone a "clown" has become more and more insulting in the recent years, which I'm sure the people at Wotc are aware of.

To target a whole subsect of the hobby (that perhaps isn't currently paying its dues to Wotc), calling them clowns for their gaming preferences and assigning negative stereotypes to them, feels petty.

I'd be similarly unimpressed if they created "Max Min the jester", a pedantic retired lawyer with an encyclopedic knowledge of laws of the universe, that somehow can't tie his own shoes because, in his own words, he "didn't spend enough points on that".

You know, its quite offensive to be offended on behalf of all those people in a category you do not belong to who are not offended.

 

[John R Davis]

Bullies make fun of your "stupid interest" no matter what that interest happens to be.

Always remember, you can never get more stupid than a bunch of grown men chasing a pigs bladder round a muddy field.

Well, except the frothers who support the bladder chasers!
Never played 2nd so don't recall THACO. Still playing BECMI on occassion, and I like a nice Table to consult.