Punching down is attacking someone with less power than you. Who has more power in the RPG community: the writers of official D&D modules or old grogs ranting at clouds with basically zero platform? The grogs, obviously. So, if the writers of official D&D modules attack the old grogs...that's punching down.
So you think the old grogs are in a similar position of power (within this micro community) as the writers on staff at Wizards of the Coast? Okay. That's certainly a take. Can't imagine how you got there, but whatevs.
Nah, if it's anything, it's punching up. Recall that for the most part, grognards are aging middle-class white guys who have -- and have always had-- the luxury of time (and usually also money) to waste on RPGs, as well as a secure environment and similar people to spend that hobby with. These grognards typically are not ground down by relentless poverty or abuse or discrimination. And while some of them may well have been picked on as kids, they now enjoy life in a society that has not only accepts overt "nerdiness" and pointless leisure, but even celebrates it.
Which is why I said power. Who has more power the old grogs or WotC?
A lot of them, yes. Unfortunately.
Check my posts in the thread. I think it's hilarious. I'm just objecting to the idea that the staff writers at Wizards of the Coast, the 800lbs gorilla of the gaming community, are somehow in a position of less power than the old grogs.
It actually is what punching up or down means. Textbook example. What do you mean?
In hindsight, if they had created (or will create, from now on) a series of humorous caricatures of different "generation" of gamers, from the oldskool grognard, to the third edition munchkin, to the 4e wargamer, to the 5e noob obsessed with politically correctness, I'd be totally ok with that
Then people don't know what the phrase means. Punching down is attacking or making fun of someone with less power than you. You are in a "superior position" relative to the person you're attacking, hence punching down. Punching up is attacking or making fun of someone with more power than you. You are in an "inferior position" relative to the person you're attacking, hence punching up.
Exactly like the aging middle-class white guys who're writing the module. So what's the difference? The grogs aren't writing the module that goes out to millions for the 800lbs gorilla of the gaming community. So the power imbalance is decidedly in favor of the module writers.
I completely agree. I'm glad WotC did it. It's funny as hell.
First off, i prefaced by clarifying that nope, I'm not personally hurt by any of this. I'm no grognard, never played with them, don't think I ever will. So your entire first paragraph is pointless and based on either a lack on my ability to communicate, or on your reading comprehension.
I think I'm just taking issue with your definition of punching up/down. I don't think it's purely about power or platform; we have to also consider who the target is. And in this case, while it's true the target arguably lacks relative power, they don't endure any actual harm because of who they are and their historical role in the context. So this isn't not really punching down, IMO. I admit I may not understand the official meaning of the term, though.
That's literally part of the definition. It's about relative power. If I have more than you and attack you, that's punching down. If I have less than you and attack you, that's punching up. It's not about my power in isolation. It's about my power relative to yours. So yes, the target absolutely is taken into account.
It's not about harm caused. It's literally about the relative power and the attack, or joke.
Well, definitions are incredibly important otherwise we won't know if we agree or disagree.
Which is why I specifically added the context of a heckler. If someone heckles, they're fair game, regardless.
It absolutely does. Platform is power. The comedian on stage at a comedy show has more power than your typical audience member from the mere fact that they're on stage with the lights out and spotlights on them with a mic in their hand. Their platform literally gives them more power. Likewise with WotC and the grogs. WotC's platform multiplies the power they already have from being a multi-billion dollar a year company. If you have a Twitter following of 5 million people and I have a Twitter following of 5 people, you're telling me that our power is identical? That your platform, your reach, is irrelevant? That's absurd on its face.
There's literally zero harm caused by a comedian making a joke. Being offended isn't harm.
There's zero harm caused in WotC poking fun at gatekeeping grogs. Literally zero.
Ultimately, which is correct depends on the focal length of your perspective. It's very much like the term racism - there are people who hold it's only appropriate for describing institutional differences in power or what ad_hoc is describing as a person's power in society. That's the wide angle lens or macro- view of the terms punching up/down as used here.
Okay. Explain to me how being offended is harmful.
Indeed. Now, if they were to make fun of attack tables with repeating twenties, then it would be another matter entirely. I would personally challenge Perkins to a duel. Using Chainmail combat rules.
Yeahbut...You're claiming sole ownership of a definition on a slang term that doesn't have an "official" definition in common parlance, though it appears it might have in academic fields. I mean, I just googled "punching up" and see something like half a dozen related but somewhat different meanings-- and they don't all mirror your specific one.
