The 10-foot pole, antithesis of what adventuring should be?

[Odhanan]

I find the concept of the 10 foot pole abhorrent. It is the antithesis of everything I think adventuring should be.

Interesting quote here. That makes me want to discuss it further, apart of the whole lever discussion going on in the thread it comes from.

The 10-foot pole being abhorrent or not depends on what someone defines as adventuring. If you define adventuring as some type of travel made up of deeds performed by heroes, it begs the question of cautiousness of the hero/adventurer.

Is it antithetical for a hero to be cautious? And there, in some respects, I can see where it appears to be. After all, a hero is someone who steps up against some threat or goes toward danger that "ordinary people" would not or could not confront themselves. The hero always does something beyond the reach of ordinary men, crosses the threshold no mundane man (or woman, this is intended to be gender neutral here) would. Often, the hero starts as an ordinary man, but the fact of stepping up to the plate and answering to the call to adventure makes him a hero. An adventurer.

This is part of the genre on which D&D is based. But does D&D reflect this aspect of adventuring? By concentrating on dungeoneering as a near synonym to the adventure, didn't D&D twist some aspects of what heroes are supposed to be? Indeed, using 10-foot poles and being cautious while exploring a dungeon makes sense in a lot of circumstances, but does this cautiousness affect the status of "adventurers" the PCs enjoy?

Beyond this, does it actually matter? If the fun of the game is to explore dungeons, kill monsters, loot the corpses and sell the stuff back to town, does it actually matter if the PCs aren't "heroes" in a more classical sense of the word? I don't think it matters, personally, especially if you make the game world reflect D&D's twists on the topic and it all makes sense because of it (If for instance you are an adventurer in Ptolus, it makes sense to be very cautious while exploring "The Dungeon". After all, many delvers came before you, and many will come after you. There is the Delver's Guild too, and such a cautiousness is part of the basics adventurers share with each other when meeting at the Guild or Delver's Square etc.). It also doesn't matter because other elements of the game which complement the dungeon delving may actually reflect these heroic components - the opponents faced, the plot of the adventure and campaign (i.e. why the PCs are delving as opposed to the fact they delve), and so on, so forth.

I think it's an interesting topic, and would like your input on this. Do you think the 10-foot pole is the antithesis of adventuring? Why? What is your take on this? Let's read what you think and hopefully, discuss it further.

 

[demiurge1138]

The ten-foot pole might not be conductive to some people's sense of gaming style, but calling it the antithesis of anything is hyperbolic, really. The classical D&D adventurer isn't just reckless and brave. He's canny. He's seen everything there is to see, and has a ton of little tricks that have kept him alive so far. Since traps are so much an integral part of D&D dungeoneering and only rogues can (traditionally) disable them, it makes sense for these cunning experienced adventurers to have some sort of trap insurance in case the rogue makes a mistake. Hence, ten foot poles.

Me, I like 'em. They're handy. Although I personally prefer something with a little more versatility than just a long stick. In a dungeon-crawl I played in about a year ago, there was an abandoned armory, so my warlock picked up a (totally mundane) longspear for ten-foot-poleing purposes. Reach weapon plus being able to tap stones, have a light-spell-on-a-stick was very useful (although, over the course of the adventure, it went from longspear to spear, then to club, then to kindling).

Demiurge out.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

A 10 foot pole is a good idea for a party without a rogue. To go unprepared into danger doesn't make one brave, just stupid. And stupidity kills.

Be prepared. The unprepared party is the suicidal party, and rightly deserve their TPK.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I see the 10 foot pole as representative of a gaming style in which adventurers are afraid to touch anything, or really to interact with anything, themselves. To me, it represents paranoia on an extreme level. It isn't just cautiousness, its fear. It's spending 10 minutes of game time figuring out if its safe to open a door. It is the thesis of 20 minutes of fun in 4 hours of gaming.

Yes, its an extreme oppinion, of that I admit. No, I don't expect anyone to agree with me. But, I doubt I could find anything fun about a campaign in which the 10 foot pole played an important part. I'm all for caution. I'm just not up for the kind of game that it represents.

 

[Slife]

I doubt I could find anything fun about a campaign in which the 10 foot pole played an important part.

Pole-vaulting.

There are a thousand-and-one uses for the ten-foot pole, most of which aren't overly paranoid.

A bit of paranoia is fun, but making it the focus gets old. I could enjoy playing a game where one dungeon (a temple of the god of traps?) is super-duper-trapped, but only if told about the shift in style OOC.

 

[ThirdWizard]

A bit of paranoia is fun, but making it the focus gets old. I could enjoy playing a game where one dungeon (a temple of the god of traps?) is super-duper-trapped, but only if told about the shift in style OOC.

It depends. I wouldn't want to take a long-standing PC I've been playing in a long term campaign through the ToH for example, but if its a one shot with several backup characters, then I could enjoy it so long as I'm getting to hang out with my friends.

 

[Odhanan]

I see the 10 foot pole as representative of a gaming style in which adventurers are afraid to touch anything, or really to interact with anything, themselves. To me, it represents paranoia on an extreme level. It isn't just cautiousness, its fear. It's spending 10 minutes of game time figuring out if its safe to open a door. It is the thesis of 20 minutes of fun in 4 hours of gaming.

But what if the paranoia and the decision making are fun moments of the game themselves? Perhaps not for you, and perhaps not for those who have played with that kind of game elements for years on, but it's possible for some people to enjoy it at least for some time, isn't it?

Yes, its an extreme oppinion, of that I admit. No, I don't expect anyone to agree with me. But, I doubt I could find anything fun about a campaign in which the 10 foot pole played an important part. I'm all for caution. I'm just not up for the kind of game that it represents.

I don't think it's truly about telling you you're wrong or right for thinking what you think. You're old enough to make that kind of decision. The goal for me is to assess the implications of your statement and just see where it leads us here.

 

[ThirdWizard]

But what if the paranoia and the decision making are fun moments of the game themselves? Perhaps not for you, and perhaps not for those who have played with that kind of game elements for years on, but it's possible for some people to enjoy it at least for some time, isn't it?

Everything I say is IMO, YMMV, etc and so on and so forth. I just feel strongly about what I like and what I dislike with regards to this subject, so I come off as a fanatic. That's okay. I come off as much more abraisive on message boards than I do in person. It's the eyes, I think. You just can't get upset with the big blue puppy dog eyes looking at you.

I don't think it's truly about telling you you're wrong or right for thinking what you think. You're old enough to make that kind of decision. The goal for me is to assess the implications of your statement and just see where it leads us here.

Every once in a while, I post a comment just like the one above (with varying adjectives). Generally it gets ignored and I slink away quietly into my corner and nibble on a muffin. I don't mind you expanding on it, and its better done in a new thread than the other thread, I think!

I fully admit that in this case, I'm kinda crazy. I'm the guy that will ignore the obvious rout in order to go with something more dangerous and less likely to work because I think it will look cooler if I can pull it off.

I guess you can tell I prefer a more swashbuckling style. A swing from the chandaliers (however you spell that) and slde down the banaster (however you spell that, too) kind of game. Not that there is any of those two actual things... its metaphorical. Erm... if that makes sense.

 

[Odhanan]

I guess you can tell I prefer a more swashbuckling style. A swing from the chandaliers (however you spell that) and slde down the banaster (however you spell that, too) kind of game. Not that there is any of those two actual things... its metaphorical. Erm... if that makes sense.

You've got to try Iron Heroes along with Mastering Iron Heroes, action zones and all that stuff, man (if you haven't already, of course). Go ahead, swing from the chandelier!

I guess that the whole idea here is "how much cautiousness is too much, exactly?" If the PCs are too cautious, they just don't go adventuring, don't go down into the dungeon. If however they're just too quick to do anything, their chances to TPK will increase a lot. But ... what if a TPK was actually fun (*gasp!* Here's a weird idea... ) ? And in that case, why not disregard cautiousness and just go for the lever?

 

[Lanefan]

The 10-foot pole brings to mind the halcyon days of low-level adventuring before access to all kinds of Detect xxxx spells, when exploration time was dictated by the burn-time left on the torch, when finding a spare non-magical shield really meant something, when one hit from anything could lay you up for a week...good times, good times.

And you could get double-duty from your 10-foot pole by sticking some sort of can-opener on the end and taking proficiency in pole-arm.

Lanefan