D&D 4E The 4E combat poll: grind and more!
- Thread starter TerraDave
- Start date
I didn't find the option for "Had players that payed attention", so voted for "Does not change at all, its perfect!".
I really like the combat system and I have no general problems with the system. Some combats are a bit long, but for me that's usually because I have 7 players and I am throwing all but the kitchen sink at my players.
I really like the combat system and I have no general problems with the system. Some combats are a bit long, but for me that's usually because I have 7 players and I am throwing all but the kitchen sink at my players.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Really haven't run into many grindy encounters. It seems like they're more likely at low heroic than anywhere else typically.
RangerWickett
Legend
My new theory is that grind is the result of a GM not running combat well, and players not teaming up well. In the past several months of 4e I haven't felt grind, not even when this past week when we were down to at-wills, and one PC was constantly dazed by a banshrae.
I think by this point we're familiar enough with how the game runs that we never get to a situation where we're all hale and hearty, but the monsters are all bloody but not yet down. I need to ask my GM what his philosophy is for picking monsters.
Our powers give us lots of options, and the GM designs monsters with fun interactions and terrain that wants to be used, which leads to dynamic combats.
On the other hand, this past weekend I played in a 3.5 game where the GM let one player take 5 minutes on his turn, pondering all the options like he was playing grand master chess. Not grindy, just boring.
Compared to 4e, I was a lot more bored. Fighting a centaur in difficult terrain, I basically had to stay put and thwack it, because if I tried to move at all I'd be Opportunity Hoofed into unconsciousness. Then again, maybe it's just that the 4e GM designs for fun combats, whereas the 3.5 GM designs for narrative, not fun. Narratively, it makes sense that fighting a centaur in brush would be a pain in the butt. Maybe I'm just not used to things not being fun.
I think by this point we're familiar enough with how the game runs that we never get to a situation where we're all hale and hearty, but the monsters are all bloody but not yet down. I need to ask my GM what his philosophy is for picking monsters.
Our powers give us lots of options, and the GM designs monsters with fun interactions and terrain that wants to be used, which leads to dynamic combats.
On the other hand, this past weekend I played in a 3.5 game where the GM let one player take 5 minutes on his turn, pondering all the options like he was playing grand master chess. Not grindy, just boring.
Compared to 4e, I was a lot more bored. Fighting a centaur in difficult terrain, I basically had to stay put and thwack it, because if I tried to move at all I'd be Opportunity Hoofed into unconsciousness. Then again, maybe it's just that the 4e GM designs for fun combats, whereas the 3.5 GM designs for narrative, not fun. Narratively, it makes sense that fighting a centaur in brush would be a pain in the butt. Maybe I'm just not used to things not being fun.
RangerWickett
Legend
Oh, also, I don't want to buy minis. I enjoy playing 4e combats when my GM runs them, but when I run my own game, I would prefer a 4e-esque system where a tactical map was unnecessary. Likewise, I'm actually rather frustrated with the thousands of options for powers, feats, and items. I won't complain, because it's a decent business model, but making a character takes too long, even with the Character Builder.
I dunno, maybe an Unearthed Arcana-esque product with simplified class variants, playable without a grid.
I dunno, maybe an Unearthed Arcana-esque product with simplified class variants, playable without a grid.
Your PCs must not have access to Cloak of Courage before every encounter.
I'm diametrically opposed! I love the minis and like using the right ones or at least something close to it (although I don't own 13 Giant Rats, so I'm using tokens). I think that the minis and the map is a wonderful part of the game. And the plastic pre-painted minis are so nicely done for the price. Seriously; compare those to the equivalent lead minis.
I think back to when I played D&D extensively in the late 70s / early 80s, and we didn't use minis or maps. Thinking back on those battles, I'm amazed at how "flat" they were and am just dumbfounded at how we handled anything tactical- or movement-related.
Neonchameleon
Legend
I've had grind as a player. Generally for a few reasons:
Mis-aimed monsters. Level 10 standard soldier (as part of a big fight) vs level 3 PCs. Pure grind.
Easy fights. Yes, a L4 elite soldier vs a 2nd-3rd level party doesn't take too long and therefore avoids some meanings of grind. It's also pointless. Surround it and beat it down. Next!
Too much terrain. To the point where there's almost no shifting allowed and combat becomes static.
Line-fighting. The PCs walk up four abreast along the main road with artillery in the rear. The monsters walk up five abreast with artillery in the rear. And they meet in the middle and form shieldwalls.
Distracted players. Enough said.
Mis-aimed monsters. Level 10 standard soldier (as part of a big fight) vs level 3 PCs. Pure grind.
Easy fights. Yes, a L4 elite soldier vs a 2nd-3rd level party doesn't take too long and therefore avoids some meanings of grind. It's also pointless. Surround it and beat it down. Next!
Too much terrain. To the point where there's almost no shifting allowed and combat becomes static.
Line-fighting. The PCs walk up four abreast along the main road with artillery in the rear. The monsters walk up five abreast with artillery in the rear. And they meet in the middle and form shieldwalls.
Distracted players. Enough said.
Peraion Graufalke
First Post
For me it's almost perfect, even if my DM loves throwing higher-level encounters at us. And combats with just 3 players definitely feel more "swingy" IME.
Almost is because I often roll low when I play - and I'm even using Gamescience dice! But that's not 4e's fault.
Almost is because I often roll low when I play - and I'm even using Gamescience dice! But that's not 4e's fault.
abyssaldeath
First Post
I almost voted perfect, but sometimes the shear number of conditions that are being thrown around in an encounter can be a little hard to keep track of.
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