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mach1.9pants

Adventurer
So international backers in particular are backing blind. International shipping from US to Europe plus additional taxes can add up to more than the book itself. :cautious:
It's pretty common nowadays. So many Kickstarter got burned on international postage that it makes sense. By the time it ships postage could be much more expensive than when started. So buy now, get charged in backer kit is more common then not.

The other option is wait until noble Knight have it!
 

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Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
It's pretty common nowadays. So many Kickstarter got burned on international postage that it makes sense. By the time it ships postage could be much more expensive than when started. So buy now, get charged in backer kit is more common then not.

The other option is wait until noble Knight have it!
Noble Knight is in the US as well.......

My point was, that for international backers it's a huge gamble whether it will be PoD or overseas customs shipping.
 

mach1.9pants

Adventurer
It would be good to know

If you go Drivethru then postage is much lower for Int backers

Atm, the $30 postage pops up in your KS if you try and back a physical reward. Is this deliberate?
From the comments

user avatar

Legendary GamesCreatorabout 4 hours ago
You're the second person that's had that happen. I'm not sure if it's an odd glitch or exactly what the cause is, but I don't think it's something we can fix while the campaign is running.

In any case we can just apply that $30 as a credit later. No worries; we'll take good care of you!
 

LegendaryGames

Explorer
Publisher
It would be good to know

If you go Drivethru then postage is much lower for Int backers

Atm, the $30 postage pops up in your KS if you try and back a physical reward. Is this deliberate?
Hmm, it shouldn't be popping up, but I've now had 3 people tell me that it popped up for them. Are you in New Zealand by chance? I believe both of the others were. Unfortunately if something is glitched in the default shipping box, it can't be edited while the campaign is running, but for the few people where it's happened we can either apply as a credit towards shipping or, if there's any excess, just refund it to you directly.
 

LegendaryGames

Explorer
Publisher
Noble Knight is in the US as well.......

My point was, that for international backers it's a huge gamble whether it will be PoD or overseas customs shipping.
Actually, we could do it both ways, so you could stipulate which you prefer. Even if we did end up doing a full offset print run (which at this point is looking unlikely, but the last 2-1/2 days could see a big surge), for anyone who preferred to save on shipping we could do their print book as a POD. So you could lock in the (probable) lower shipping rate of a POD book even if other people chose to pay more for the offset print version.

Does that feel like a workable solution for you?
 


Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
Actually, we could do it both ways, so you could stipulate which you prefer. Even if we did end up doing a full offset print run (which at this point is looking unlikely, but the last 2-1/2 days could see a big surge), for anyone who preferred to save on shipping we could do their print book as a POD. So you could lock in the (probable) lower shipping rate of a POD book even if other people chose to pay more for the offset print version.

Does that feel like a workable solution for you?
It does. Thanks.
 


BenTheFerg

Explorer
Hmm, it shouldn't be popping up, but I've now had 3 people tell me that it popped up for them. Are you in New Zealand by chance? I believe both of the others were. Unfortunately if something is glitched in the default shipping box, it can't be edited while the campaign is running, but for the few people where it's happened we can either apply as a credit towards shipping or, if there's any excess, just refund it to you directly.
I'm in the UK!
 

BenTheFerg

Explorer
Actually, we could do it both ways, so you could stipulate which you prefer. Even if we did end up doing a full offset print run (which at this point is looking unlikely, but the last 2-1/2 days could see a big surge), for anyone who preferred to save on shipping we could do their print book as a POD. So you could lock in the (probable) lower shipping rate of a POD book even if other people chose to pay more for the offset print version.

Does that feel like a workable solution for you?
POD postage should not be at $30. It's insanely high!
 

BenTheFerg

Explorer
Actually, we could do it both ways, so you could stipulate which you prefer. Even if we did end up doing a full offset print run (which at this point is looking unlikely, but the last 2-1/2 days could see a big surge), for anyone who preferred to save on shipping we could do their print book as a POD. So you could lock in the (probable) lower shipping rate of a POD book even if other people chose to pay more for the offset print version.

Does that feel like a workable solution for you?
To be honest, I am amazed you have started a KS without knowing if you are PODing it via Drivethru (which seems an excellent route) or doing a traditional print and distribution model.

Mike O'Shea (of Lazy DM fame) has used POD as a methodology from the start and it works really well. Ditto Stygian Fox Publishing.
 

LegendaryGames

Explorer
Publisher
POD postage should not be at $30. It's insanely high!
A couple of notes:

1. POD postage varies wildly by country for a single book. In the UK it's often less than $10. Continental Europe typically ranges from $12-20. Canada is usually around $18-25, as is Mexico. Australia and New Zealand are usually around $30-35, as are Central and South America, Africa, and Asia. It also depends on total package weight, so people getting multiple books will see higher shipping weight and higher shipping charges.

2. We thought we had set it up to not charge postage at all, so that it could all be resolved in Backerkit. Apparently some setting was incorrect and a few people (thus far, 4 that I know of) have gotten the $30 already included in their pledge. Unfortunately, once a Kickstarter has begun, those settings can't be adjusted, so even if we could track down why the error happened, we can't do change it right now. However, see #3.

3. For anyone whose pledge does charge for international shipping, if actual shipping is to their location is substantially less, we're happy to refund the difference (or see if they'd rather add some extra products to their order of equivalent value if they'd rather do that).
 

BenTheFerg

Explorer
A couple of notes:

1. POD postage varies wildly by country for a single book. In the UK it's often less than $10. Continental Europe typically ranges from $12-20. Canada is usually around $18-25, as is Mexico. Australia and New Zealand are usually around $30-35, as are Central and South America, Africa, and Asia. It also depends on total package weight, so people getting multiple books will see higher shipping weight and higher shipping charges.

2. We thought we had set it up to not charge postage at all, so that it could all be resolved in Backerkit. Apparently some setting was incorrect and a few people (thus far, 4 that I know of) have gotten the $30 already included in their pledge. Unfortunately, once a Kickstarter has begun, those settings can't be adjusted, so even if we could track down why the error happened, we can't do change it right now. However, see #3.

3. For anyone whose pledge does charge for international shipping, if actual shipping is to their location is substantially less, we're happy to refund the difference (or see if they'd rather add some extra products to their order of equivalent value if they'd rather do that).
Aha

Living in the UK, I have got used to a decadent life of relatively cheap postage on my Drivethru goods!

Good to know.

Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed reply. 👍🏻
 

LegendaryGames

Explorer
Publisher
To be honest, I am amazed you have started a KS without knowing if you are PODing it via Drivethru (which seems an excellent route) or doing a traditional print and distribution model.

Mike O'Shea (of Lazy DM fame) has used POD as a methodology from the start and it works really well. Ditto Stygian Fox Publishing.
It really depends on the response to your Kickstarter as to what makes the most financial sense. POD books are so much more expensive than books in a traditional print run (around 3x the cost per book, or even a higher ratio if you order a larger number of books) that how many books you buy affects which direction to go. Usually the tipping point is around 300 books or so; if you think you're going to need 300 or fewer, you're better off doing them POD. If you're going to need more than 300, it will cost you less to order 1000 copies of an offset print run than for those 300 POD books. This includes not just your actual pledges, but also your forecast of additional sales to distribution or elsewhere.

We've done both in the past, and in fact sometimes both within the same Kickstarter project. For example, when we did our Pirate Campaign Compendium, we only needed about 150 copies of the Pathfinder RPG version, so those books were fulfilled as POD. On the other hand, we had over 300 pledges for our 5E version, so we did an offset print run for those. After-Kickstarter sales have certainly borne out the trend, we've nearly sold out the entire print run of 5E books, while we've sold far fewer of the Pathfinder RPG books.

For a project like this one, we have clearly different numbers of pledges for different systems, you never know for sure whether any one of them or all of them might warrant doing a full print run. We have ways to keep shipping costs down to most countries by using Amazon as our international through-shipment service, so it's not as bad as straight-up USPS shipping.

But the compromise solution is simple enough and we're doing it with this project: Even if we do end up doing a print run (which at this point seems unlikely), for any international customer who'd rather get their books POD to save on shipping, no problem! We can totally do that!
 

LegendaryGames

Explorer
Publisher
Aha

Living in the UK, I have got used to a decadent life of relatively cheap postage on my Drivethru goods!

Good to know.

Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed reply. 👍🏻
Sure thing! International commerce can be a tricky beast (who knew? LOL), but if I can help folks see how it works and why and how we do things the way we do, I figure that's good information for everyone to have! Hope you climb aboard and love the books you get!
 

BenTheFerg

Explorer
It really depends on the response to your Kickstarter as to what makes the most financial sense. POD books are so much more expensive than books in a traditional print run (around 3x the cost per book, or even a higher ratio if you order a larger number of books) that how many books you buy affects which direction to go. Usually the tipping point is around 300 books or so; if you think you're going to need 300 or fewer, you're better off doing them POD. If you're going to need more than 300, it will cost you less to order 1000 copies of an offset print run than for those 300 POD books. This includes not just your actual pledges, but also your forecast of additional sales to distribution or elsewhere.

We've done both in the past, and in fact sometimes both within the same Kickstarter project. For example, when we did our Pirate Campaign Compendium, we only needed about 150 copies of the Pathfinder RPG version, so those books were fulfilled as POD. On the other hand, we had over 300 pledges for our 5E version, so we did an offset print run for those. After-Kickstarter sales have certainly borne out the trend, we've nearly sold out the entire print run of 5E books, while we've sold far fewer of the Pathfinder RPG books.

For a project like this one, we have clearly different numbers of pledges for different systems, you never know for sure whether any one of them or all of them might warrant doing a full print run. We have ways to keep shipping costs down to most countries by using Amazon as our international through-shipment service, so it's not as bad as straight-up USPS shipping.

But the compromise solution is simple enough and we're doing it with this project: Even if we do end up doing a print run (which at this point seems unlikely), for any international customer who'd rather get their books POD to save on shipping, no problem! We can totally do that!
Cheers. As a layman on these matters, a consumer rather than producer, this is a fascinating insight into the knife edged costing decisions that can make or break a KS project.

Am aware from Gareth Ryder Hanrahan that the $ returns in fiction writing are far better than for rpg writing.

A veritable nightmare!

Good luck!!
 

LegendaryGames

Explorer
Publisher
Cheers. As a layman on these matters, a consumer rather than producer, this is a fascinating insight into the knife edged costing decisions that can make or break a KS project.

Am aware from Gareth Ryder Hanrahan that the $ returns in fiction writing are far better than for rpg writing.

A veritable nightmare!

Good luck!!
Thanks for the well wishes!

RPG books are pretty expensive to make (art and maps and full-color layout) vs. a fiction book that's B/W, cover art, and maybe a few maps and chapter icons, but that's life in the big city if you want to make a great book these days.

Glad you enjoyed the info!
 

BenTheFerg

Explorer
Thanks for the well wishes!

RPG books are pretty expensive to make (art and maps and full-color layout) vs. a fiction book that's B/W, cover art, and maybe a few maps and chapter icons, but that's life in the big city if you want to make a great book these days.

Glad you enjoyed the info!
I did. And have finally taken the plunge at pdf level! 👍🏻
 

BenTheFerg

Explorer
It really depends on the response to your Kickstarter as to what makes the most financial sense. POD books are so much more expensive than books in a traditional print run (around 3x the cost per book, or even a higher ratio if you order a larger number of books) that how many books you buy affects which direction to go. Usually the tipping point is around 300 books or so; if you think you're going to need 300 or fewer, you're better off doing them POD. If you're going to need more than 300, it will cost you less to order 1000 copies of an offset print run than for those 300 POD books. This includes not just your actual pledges, but also your forecast of additional sales to distribution or elsewhere.

We've done both in the past, and in fact sometimes both within the same Kickstarter project. For example, when we did our Pirate Campaign Compendium, we only needed about 150 copies of the Pathfinder RPG version, so those books were fulfilled as POD. On the other hand, we had over 300 pledges for our 5E version, so we did an offset print run for those. After-Kickstarter sales have certainly borne out the trend, we've nearly sold out the entire print run of 5E books, while we've sold far fewer of the Pathfinder RPG books.

For a project like this one, we have clearly different numbers of pledges for different systems, you never know for sure whether any one of them or all of them might warrant doing a full print run. We have ways to keep shipping costs down to most countries by using Amazon as our international through-shipment service, so it's not as bad as straight-up USPS shipping.

But the compromise solution is simple enough and we're doing it with this project: Even if we do end up doing a print run (which at this point seems unlikely), for any international customer who'd rather get their books POD to save on shipping, no problem! We can totally do that!
Another question:
Will you be printing 6 books of 100pages or 1 big book of 600 pages? I ask since binding a 600 page book could be tricky and expensive!
 

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