D&D 5E The Advanced Multiclass Guide

[Zardnaar]

This thread is a sequel to my last guide where I covered a few well known builds. T His is more about the building blocks of how to mitigate the drawbacks of multiclassing in the guide.

First things 1st what are the downsides of multiclassing. Generally IMHO they are.

Delayed access to ASI or multiple attacks.
Missing out on higher level class abilities.
Missing out on the 3rd fighter attack (theoretically the 4th one but who plays level 20?)
Delayed or missing access to higher level spells or spellslots

Concept 2 is how to mitigate the downsides. Basically if you have to give up some of that make sure whatever you are getting in return is either better or can mitigate it in some ways. For example missing out on an ASI for an extra attack or the paladins aura might be worth it as no feat can duplicate those abilities.

You also want to keep you damage up to at least average damage. A rough guideline on what I consider damage tiers. THis more or less applies as long as you plan on making weapon attacks or cantrips if you're a primary spellcaster of course DPR matters less.

Low Damage. Wizard and land druid melee
Below Average Damage. Valor Bards, some clerics
Average Damage, Rogue or Sword and board type fighter, min maxed clerics
Above Average Damage. Great weapon fighters, striker type Rangers and Paladins, Warlocks spamming eldritch Blast, some clerics under ideal circumstances
High Damage. Warrior types abusing the -5/+10 feats, Sorlocks.

This is a rough guideline and IMHO of course. Now the following it basically the things to learn about when constructing a MC character. Due to how some things work in 5E it kind of pays to look at the classes as a mix and match buffet to fit your concept of whatever you want to achieve. Note not all concepts are that viable under 5E rules. I am assuming you build a good PCs. Here are some tricks to consider when MCing.

Eldritch Blast/Cantrips.
Yes the Sorlock is a big obvious abuse of the this but the way EB scales and the way it interact with hex and/or hunters quarry means even a skill monkey build can keep up with respectable damage for the low low price of 2 levels of warlock taking agonizing blast. A lesser abuse is Green Flame Blade.

Classes as building block 4 levels at a time.
This gets around the idea that you miss out on ASIS if you MC to much. A Fighter 6/Ranger4/Rogue4 for example if build right still deals great damage and doesn't miss out on any ASIS and due to the fighter 6 thing is actually ahead of the other classes that do not get an extra ASi such as fighters and Rogues. The missing 3rd fighter attack can be mitigated via hunter ranger and Rogue class features.

The class dip
This basically means the Fighter and Sorcerer level for the proficiency in con saves or the hexblade dip for the Paladin 6/8 Hexblade 1 thing perhaps 2 levels for the eldritch blast thing. Proficiency in con saves is great for spellcasters and if feats are not used its almost a class exclusive feature to Sorcerers (and level 6 transmuters) at least for spellcasters.

The multiclass spellcaster table.
This is about how you tie everything together. For example an Eldritch Knight 6/Wizard 4 counts as a level 7 caster for spell slot purposes, a similar idea applies with the Paladin/Sorcerer and you can use those spell slots to smite with up to 5th level slots and the 6th level slots to upcast lower level spells.

Warlock Recharge Mechanics and Sorcerer Points.

This is for the coffee lock and Sorlock abuse. A coffee lock is a Warlock who never sleeps and rather than long rest takes 7 short rests and converts the warlock spell slots to sorcerer points and then converts them into spell slots. Lots of low level spell slots.

Shillelagh

This is a way to get your attacks keyed off your wisdom score which is a great idea for clerics. This means a nature cleric, multi class Druid or a Cleric who has the spell sniper or magic initiate feats for the most part or 3pp races such a Soldier Dragonkin from the Midgard setting. A beat down spell buffed green flame blade using arcane cleric can hurt a lot combined with Shillelagh. A nature cleric using the polearm master feat can also out perform a war cleric (less MAD) so go figure.


So why multiclass? The two main reasons IMHO is to build a concept not well supported by the rules such as a PHB only gish (Fighter 1, fiendpact warlock XYZ), or for min maxing. Some classes their higher level abilities are either not to exciting or take to long to get their. This is often classes such as the Ranger, Fighter, and Rogue which MC together very well in multiple combinations. The charisma based classes and spellcasters also MC very well together due to some of them pushing the power limits of 5E (lore bards, Paladins), or because of how things work in the classes mechanics (Warlocks, Sorcery point abuse with warlocks, or Sorcerer con saves). The intelligence based spell casters (wizards and the 1/3rd casters) are gimped by comparison (EK 6/Abjurer XYZ is one of the few I would actually play). I don't like missing that 2nd attack as a warrior for longer than 1 level (Fighter1/bladelock 4 is fine), missing the fighter 3rd attack is fine as long as you like what you are giving up. Classes such as Paladins and Rnagers do not get a 3rd attack anyway so level 6 and 8 are great MC exit points for them even something as basic as multiple weapon styles at low levels can be useful (Fighter 5./Ranger or Paladin 2 or both).

If your concept only makes one attack anyway such as Rogues and Clerics that is OK. A spell buffed clerics using things like spiritual guardians. A rogue giving up sneak attack dice usually doesn't matter if you take some fighter or Ranger levels as the 2d6 or 3d6 you give up are easily offset by those classes features- A Rogue 8 fighter or Ranger (hunter) 5 will actually deal more damage than a single classed Rogue especially if dual wielding. The higher level Rogue abilities are also not that great or losing them doesn't hurt you that much.

So that is basically it for a few tricks that I know.

 

[leogobsin]

Seems like a solid outline overall, one small correction. Your section on Shillelagh:

Shillelagh

This is a way to get your attacks keyed off your wisdom score which is a great idea for clerics. This means a nature cleric, multi class Druid or a Cleric who has the spell sniper or magic initiate feats for the most part or 3pp races such a Soldier Dragonkin from the Midgard setting. A beat down spell buffed green flame blade using arcane cleric can hurt a lot combined with Shillelagh. A nature cleric using the polearm master feat can also out perform a war cleric (less MAD) so go figure.

mentions Spell Sniper, which I don't think can give you Shillelagh. Spell Sniper lets you learn one cantrip "that requires an attack roll". You don't make an attack roll as part of the casting of Shillelagh, so it's not a valid choice for learning through Spell Sniper.

 

[Zardnaar]

Seems like a solid outline overall, one small correction. Your section on Shillelagh:


mentions Spell Sniper, which I don't think can give you Shillelagh. Spell Sniper lets you learn one cantrip "that requires an attack roll". You don't make an attack roll as part of the casting of Shillelagh, so it's not a valid choice for learning through Spell Sniper.

Good point.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Are you going to write a follow-up guide that explains how the various combinations make sense from a roleplaying perspective?

 

[Zardnaar]

Are you going to write a follow-up guide that explains how the various combinations make sense from a roleplaying perspective?

Nope its just mechanics. Some things like Fighter/Rogues do not need much explanation. Roleplaying is also subjective, mechanics are easier to discuss on a forum IMHO. No one is going to care that much about my home game (or yours) or Billybob Jimbos home game.

 

[5ekyu]

one of the areas i would emphasize is to be very warty of "what this character does" when multiclassing.

if you are primarily a caster, don't take MC options that strongly dilute that - like warlock levels that lose the spell slot table or non-caster levels almost period. Expanding your scope *while* continuing to develop your core *or* emphasizing and enhancing your core remains a key element to keep in mind.

Obviously there are exceptions:

"Are you going to write a follow-up guide that explains how the various combinations make sense from a roleplaying perspective?"

Actually, that is perhaps very difficult to do because role-playing tie-ins and such are in my experience extremely setting and table focused. The role-playing tie-ins for a cleric/warlock in greyhawk, realms, Ebberon and my homebrew "splintered world" are likely to be very much different from each other. They also may vary greatly from Al to non-AL.

But if i were to try and focus on such i would tend to use some specific examplces and case by case situations.

One of the core aspects would be right off the bat "talk to your Gm and keep them in the loop as to your "plan". That way they can have heads up and prepare/helphelp with any sort of NPC related linkages you might need to have." gets back to "RP is very table specific" and so is harder to "guide for" than more direct rules and mechanics are.

but as an example, in the game i currently play in, my halfling sorcerer has an entertainer background, runs a variety of entertainment related side-projects including singing and dancing and her own fortune telling with dragon cards. (That helps setup a potential Bard MC right off the bat - esp with already proficient in sorc. Smooth transition.) She also has this belief (or is it a scam?) that she had dragons sing to her in her dreams and uses that as part of some of her performances., (That can be seen as sowing the seeds for a warlock turn at some point.) When we got a wizard temporarily joining our group, she worked hard at getting him to talk about himself and his magic a lot (who doesn't like talking about themselves) including a lot of questions about familiars. (Serves another purpose in character but also could be seen as sowing seeds for warlock-chain turn.) Finally, part of her origin story includes living on the streets running scams with other kids (somewhat at times as a benevolent fagin figure.) (those could serve as a potential seed for a rogue turn esp since she was hanging out with one before the campaign started - another PC - and had used them as contact for fencing goods etc.)

In other words, from a rather simple "street-girl-with-talent-gets-discovered" and a few bits of flair, the seeds that could sprout into the various MC (plus other types) turns were laid in.

But again the key is, while i sometimes see some folks almost seeming to diss other folks MC using the "roleplaying" cudgel, its actually easy (if a group or table or setting tries to emphasize those things) to have MC and RP go hand in hand (just as much as minmax and RP can.) In my experience some of the best minmaxers and MCers mechanics-wise were also some of the best RPers.

 

[Zardnaar]

Note my current character is a single classed halfling champion lol with no plan to MC.

 

[aco175]

Is anyone working on better multiclassing rules? Should someone? I liked 3e rules on this and how you can keep certain character level things and class level things. There was some problems with front loading certain powers and cherry-picking some classes. Seems a lot of what some talk about in 5e as well.

How much does class paths play when you can pick paths that make your fighter basically play like a fighter/mage or fighter/thief. Should there be more paths or even do away with multiclassing?

I like the idea of being able to multiclass, but I also think the power levels should be relative.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

With a few exceptions multiclass works fine. A simple way to fix multiclassing in some cases is not allowing to use warlock spells for paladin smites or sorcery point conversion or metamagic. Those are the biggest offenders.

 

[Zardnaar]

Smiting with warlock spells is fine. Smiting with sorcerer spells and converting warlock spells to sorcery points however......