The Aleasana Meta-Thread!
- Thread starter Rhialto
- Start date
What would interest me is if different gods can have the same portfolio when they are from different pantheons?
I think the shay could do well with some nature gods, especially plants and water. They make pilgrimages to sacred trees and springs. Another possibility would be an animist faith.
I think the shay could do well with some nature gods, especially plants and water. They make pilgrimages to sacred trees and springs. Another possibility would be an animist faith.
My explanation...
Sarellion recently asked...
And then...
So I think one of us is confused here, and I don't think it's me.
Now, here's the deal--the Oldbloods are a political group. An evil political group. An evil, racist political group. They aren't a race. If you make them a subrace, and then grant them special powers for staying "pure", you suggest the rantings of their leaders--have some validity. (And logically, why should there be a disadvantage for race that lives into their 500s marrying into a race that lives into their 700s?)
Now, my other problems with the whole "homeland" thing is (as I feared it would) the more the homeland is developed the more the Alesanni proper are diminished. By pushing San'Sai from an Atlantis to a Lyonesse--or arguably even an Ys--well, the importance of the Aleasani, in general drawn as the movers and shakers of this world, is downgraded. By making them criminals, we repeat the Shay's exile story. Also, by creating an awesomely powerful nation of people who are playing no part in the story, we create a hole that has to be explained. You essentially "fixed" a problem that didn't need fixing in your post, with the result that you created half a dozen new ones. (For example, it was made very clear that the worship of Dar was originally the chief religion of the Aleasani. When you made Tarsinus god of kings, I had to explain how the reversal between the two gods had taken place. Which I did.)
This is largely opinion, I must point out, and I appreciate all the work you've done on this, Sarellion, and don't want to see you pull a Saladin. I'm willing to compromise and accomodate--I just felt I had to let my feelings be known.
Sarellion recently asked...
And then...
So I think one of us is confused here, and I don't think it's me.
Now, here's the deal--the Oldbloods are a political group. An evil political group. An evil, racist political group. They aren't a race. If you make them a subrace, and then grant them special powers for staying "pure", you suggest the rantings of their leaders--have some validity. (And logically, why should there be a disadvantage for race that lives into their 500s marrying into a race that lives into their 700s?)
Now, my other problems with the whole "homeland" thing is (as I feared it would) the more the homeland is developed the more the Alesanni proper are diminished. By pushing San'Sai from an Atlantis to a Lyonesse--or arguably even an Ys--well, the importance of the Aleasani, in general drawn as the movers and shakers of this world, is downgraded. By making them criminals, we repeat the Shay's exile story. Also, by creating an awesomely powerful nation of people who are playing no part in the story, we create a hole that has to be explained. You essentially "fixed" a problem that didn't need fixing in your post, with the result that you created half a dozen new ones. (For example, it was made very clear that the worship of Dar was originally the chief religion of the Aleasani. When you made Tarsinus god of kings, I had to explain how the reversal between the two gods had taken place. Which I did.)
This is largely opinion, I must point out, and I appreciate all the work you've done on this, Sarellion, and don't want to see you pull a Saladin. I'm willing to compromise and accomodate--I just felt I had to let my feelings be known.
The whole racial thing started beforehand. The Asani were taller and then degenerated into Asani Morok or became smaller versions of themselves. We made a difference between pre exile humans and exile humans. I assumed that your post about the old bloods indicated that these oldbloods were still able to keep the original size. I just saw that you meant them to be a political faction only. I thought it´s a political faction led by Majera who is still an Asani, an old style human.
I assumed that some of the Asani still were able to maintain some of their old traits because of magic, divine favor, pacts with someone, they weren´t hit by San´Sai superweapons or they were always able to eat well. One post said something like that the old humans became smaller because food was scarce as the old civilizations were destroyed. Well someone always eats well. Perhaps they kept their hands on the farms who supported the Asani army during the war. It´s not like a war is over quickly.
Some of them later made stuff up like we are Le Supremo because we still can become old. So yes they can become older. Who cares. Nearly every other race in the PHB is able to become older. And no Astarin is living in Aleasana. I think it´s pretty clear from the post. So max age is 280 instead of 500.
Religion:
I meant that the religion of Tarsinus is now the mover and shaker of the Aleasani world.
The first post about the church of Dar was that nearly no one is worshipping Dar anymore, because it´s one of the institutions responsible for starting the war of deadly voices.
Quote:
Temples of Dar, or their remains, are found throughout Aleasana. A schism within church was blamed for the fracturing of the once great nation. Few these days openly practice the churches teachings.
End of Quote
So it goes like this:
In the old lands: Tarsinus
Pre Exile: Dar, screw Tarsinus, it´s the shiny ones god.
Early and Royal Aleasana: Dar
After War: Tarsinus, the Darists are way too crazy...
My idea was that they abandoned Tarsinus after going into exile and later found him again. That´s the only difference between your "fix", making Tarsinus an outlawed god in San´Sai and my original idea.
I assumed that some of the Asani still were able to maintain some of their old traits because of magic, divine favor, pacts with someone, they weren´t hit by San´Sai superweapons or they were always able to eat well. One post said something like that the old humans became smaller because food was scarce as the old civilizations were destroyed. Well someone always eats well. Perhaps they kept their hands on the farms who supported the Asani army during the war. It´s not like a war is over quickly.
Some of them later made stuff up like we are Le Supremo because we still can become old. So yes they can become older. Who cares. Nearly every other race in the PHB is able to become older. And no Astarin is living in Aleasana. I think it´s pretty clear from the post. So max age is 280 instead of 500.
Religion:
I meant that the religion of Tarsinus is now the mover and shaker of the Aleasani world.
The first post about the church of Dar was that nearly no one is worshipping Dar anymore, because it´s one of the institutions responsible for starting the war of deadly voices.
Quote:
Temples of Dar, or their remains, are found throughout Aleasana. A schism within church was blamed for the fracturing of the once great nation. Few these days openly practice the churches teachings.
End of Quote
So it goes like this:
In the old lands: Tarsinus
Pre Exile: Dar, screw Tarsinus, it´s the shiny ones god.
Early and Royal Aleasana: Dar
After War: Tarsinus, the Darists are way too crazy...
My idea was that they abandoned Tarsinus after going into exile and later found him again. That´s the only difference between your "fix", making Tarsinus an outlawed god in San´Sai and my original idea.
Did you read my fix?
And if that was your original idea, you should have said it. As it was, there was a minor conflict.
Now about the Asani--they've become ogres due to 'the Curse'--whatever doom that sent them from the San'sai--not for the same reasons that caused the Aleasani's decline in height. And as for Dar--I worked from memory when I attached it to Majera at first, and obviously the religion isn't what it once was. So yes, I fudged a bit, but it didn't hurt things too much.
And if that was your original idea, you should have said it. As it was, there was a minor conflict.
Now about the Asani--they've become ogres due to 'the Curse'--whatever doom that sent them from the San'sai--not for the same reasons that caused the Aleasani's decline in height. And as for Dar--I worked from memory when I attached it to Majera at first, and obviously the religion isn't what it once was. So yes, I fudged a bit, but it didn't hurt things too much.
Arkhandus
First Post
The Aleasani were, before their trip across the ocean, taller and stronger, and the Asani-Moroks/Gorns/Toron retained that height and strength because they were stranded on fertile semi-tropical volcanic islands. Then the Curse fell upon them, and many Asani began to be warped, made ugly and deformed as others died, causing most Aleasani to flee. They left many stranded because some were too hasty and selfish in taking the boats, and those who left came to the land they would name Aleasana. This land was full of mountains and valleys, and somewhat barren, with few areas appropriate for farming, and not much in the way of native fruits and vegetables.
With such a scarce food supply, hostile natives controlling most of this scarce food supply, and probably some amount of conflict amongst themselves from those who lost family or friends in the escape, the Aleasani diminished in size over time as they fought and conquered, being unable to eat well and adapting to the changes, perhaps with the aid of magic.
With any given piece of arable land or grove of fruit trees, it could not sustain as many men as it would take to defend from other starving Aleasani, so they couldn't hope to just hole themselves up around a farm and drive off other Aleasani; no one could eat well, because there were too damned many of them competing for any given source of food. If one former noble tried to claim a piece of farmland for himself, his defenders would be slaughtered by some other, stronger group of Aleasani looking for food. So inevitably they had to work together, and ration off what food supplies they acquired in their conquest over Dvergar, Shay, Urukhs, and whatnot. Thus, over time and several generations, they shrank to a more sustainable size, though many would have died in the initial food shortages and battles of conquest.
This is just a more detailed explaination of what I had originally posted on page 3 or so. To clarify for Sarellion.
Personally, when I mentioned they had fled from disaster, I had no intention of it being a civil war or something in their homeland. More like an invasion by monsters or something, most like, or the wrath of nature. Oi.
And Sarellion, Rhialto's original post mentioning Oldbloods was when he said Majera Alsea was considered an "Oldblood", and went on to explain her political inclinations against non-humans and arcanists and foreigners. There was no impression of Oldbloods being some subrace of humans.
As for the deities of Aleasana........ If you like, then fine, go ahead and throw away my last several posts about Aleasani deities. I already went to the trouble of making them fit into the group that Sarellion had created. But I never presented them as Northerner deities.
Bandesh-Thar might be the only city-state where worship of Dar is still significant, so Majera being Dominus of the religion and the city isn't necessarily a problem. Allies of Bandesh-Thar may have small followings of Dar, while still having parts of their populus dedicated to other deities.
As far as I'm concerned, there's no need to even confirm the existence of deities in a campaign setting, because their works could just be the result of faith from followers. In many official D&D settings, faith itself is power, and deities are nothing more than a conduit for that faith, not even necessary in some cases. Some settings differ, of course. So as far as I'm concerned, different portfolio elements could be duplicated in every pantheon, maybe even in the same pantheon, depending on the culture that founded that religion (or the culture that now follows it).
With such a scarce food supply, hostile natives controlling most of this scarce food supply, and probably some amount of conflict amongst themselves from those who lost family or friends in the escape, the Aleasani diminished in size over time as they fought and conquered, being unable to eat well and adapting to the changes, perhaps with the aid of magic.
With any given piece of arable land or grove of fruit trees, it could not sustain as many men as it would take to defend from other starving Aleasani, so they couldn't hope to just hole themselves up around a farm and drive off other Aleasani; no one could eat well, because there were too damned many of them competing for any given source of food. If one former noble tried to claim a piece of farmland for himself, his defenders would be slaughtered by some other, stronger group of Aleasani looking for food. So inevitably they had to work together, and ration off what food supplies they acquired in their conquest over Dvergar, Shay, Urukhs, and whatnot. Thus, over time and several generations, they shrank to a more sustainable size, though many would have died in the initial food shortages and battles of conquest.
This is just a more detailed explaination of what I had originally posted on page 3 or so. To clarify for Sarellion.
Personally, when I mentioned they had fled from disaster, I had no intention of it being a civil war or something in their homeland. More like an invasion by monsters or something, most like, or the wrath of nature. Oi.
And Sarellion, Rhialto's original post mentioning Oldbloods was when he said Majera Alsea was considered an "Oldblood", and went on to explain her political inclinations against non-humans and arcanists and foreigners. There was no impression of Oldbloods being some subrace of humans.
As for the deities of Aleasana........ If you like, then fine, go ahead and throw away my last several posts about Aleasani deities. I already went to the trouble of making them fit into the group that Sarellion had created. But I never presented them as Northerner deities.
Bandesh-Thar might be the only city-state where worship of Dar is still significant, so Majera being Dominus of the religion and the city isn't necessarily a problem. Allies of Bandesh-Thar may have small followings of Dar, while still having parts of their populus dedicated to other deities.
As far as I'm concerned, there's no need to even confirm the existence of deities in a campaign setting, because their works could just be the result of faith from followers. In many official D&D settings, faith itself is power, and deities are nothing more than a conduit for that faith, not even necessary in some cases. Some settings differ, of course. So as far as I'm concerned, different portfolio elements could be duplicated in every pantheon, maybe even in the same pantheon, depending on the culture that founded that religion (or the culture that now follows it).
Actually, I rather liked your 'trinity of justice' post, so consider my initial suggestion withdrawn.
I suppose I should add that I sort of pictured the early Asani as very tall, but not giants, who've gotten bigger and more grotesque while living in the islands, for whatever reasons...
I suppose I should add that I sort of pictured the early Asani as very tall, but not giants, who've gotten bigger and more grotesque while living in the islands, for whatever reasons...
Food supply:
So the mainland was not able to sustain the population, after a massive war, with heavy casualties but some islands are fertile enough to sustain the whole population for a limited time?
The black plague in Europe which decimated the population actually resulted in wealthier and better fed peasants but this is not Europe but Aleasana.
The Aleasani used magic to shrink but no druid spells like ehm goodberries or Plant growth? There is also Create Food and Water, Purify Food and Water and Heroes Feast.
They probably also brought some advanced agricultural techniques and crops from the old lands if they didn´t forgot all their peasants on the other side. Could be possible that they did but a little bit unlikely.
The whole land of Aleasana is pretty defensible. These are mountain valley with passes that can be controlled easily. The arable land is behind the pass. The humans also got their hands on dvergar and other cities that are heavily fortified. According to the post starvation began after the successful invasion.
Cassant for an example doesn´t need to defend their farms one by one. The city itself blocks three major passes into the valley and the gates are from the dvergar age. An invader would need heavy equipment and a major siege to get thru these passes. As the invaders fight for the food, they probably starve in front of the gates or leave.
I didn´t wrote about the southern pass or passes but they are probably fortified as well. So three sides are defended easily with a low amount of troops.
And why shouldn´t there be some people who are still giants. Some weathered the time other are perhaps some atavism to the earlier higher frame. I am not suggesting that they are a sizable minority or that all original Asani are racist supremacists.
The fact that there are still Aleasani with greater height and longer life doesn´t add any credibility to their claims. They are still a bunch of wicked bastards.
There is also no problem with the Tuatha and the elven lands beyond the sea.
No impression of Old Bloods:
Well it sometimes happens that some other guy adds something to the setting someone else did not intend. Like the Tuatha. I still don´t see how "no one knows that there are people coming from beyond the sea" is euphemistic and could mean "no one besides the shay" but this confusion is probably caused by being not a native speaker.
If we only use what other people intended we should stop right here, because we aren´t able to work from other contributions otherwise.
I thought Old Blood is the term for the giant size Aleasani as we have no other name for the original human.
Gods:
Arkhandus, your gods fit in well, I just wondered what are other people´s thoughts, if we should introduce different gods with the same portfolio or not. Could be important that we are all on the same boat in the matter of different pantheons with identical portfolios. As far as we got there now, the gods section is pretty good.
So the mainland was not able to sustain the population, after a massive war, with heavy casualties but some islands are fertile enough to sustain the whole population for a limited time?
The black plague in Europe which decimated the population actually resulted in wealthier and better fed peasants but this is not Europe but Aleasana.
The Aleasani used magic to shrink but no druid spells like ehm goodberries or Plant growth? There is also Create Food and Water, Purify Food and Water and Heroes Feast.
They probably also brought some advanced agricultural techniques and crops from the old lands if they didn´t forgot all their peasants on the other side. Could be possible that they did but a little bit unlikely.
The whole land of Aleasana is pretty defensible. These are mountain valley with passes that can be controlled easily. The arable land is behind the pass. The humans also got their hands on dvergar and other cities that are heavily fortified. According to the post starvation began after the successful invasion.
Cassant for an example doesn´t need to defend their farms one by one. The city itself blocks three major passes into the valley and the gates are from the dvergar age. An invader would need heavy equipment and a major siege to get thru these passes. As the invaders fight for the food, they probably starve in front of the gates or leave.
I didn´t wrote about the southern pass or passes but they are probably fortified as well. So three sides are defended easily with a low amount of troops.
And why shouldn´t there be some people who are still giants. Some weathered the time other are perhaps some atavism to the earlier higher frame. I am not suggesting that they are a sizable minority or that all original Asani are racist supremacists.
The fact that there are still Aleasani with greater height and longer life doesn´t add any credibility to their claims. They are still a bunch of wicked bastards.
There is also no problem with the Tuatha and the elven lands beyond the sea.
No impression of Old Bloods:
Well it sometimes happens that some other guy adds something to the setting someone else did not intend. Like the Tuatha. I still don´t see how "no one knows that there are people coming from beyond the sea" is euphemistic and could mean "no one besides the shay" but this confusion is probably caused by being not a native speaker.
If we only use what other people intended we should stop right here, because we aren´t able to work from other contributions otherwise.
I thought Old Blood is the term for the giant size Aleasani as we have no other name for the original human.
Gods:
Arkhandus, your gods fit in well, I just wondered what are other people´s thoughts, if we should introduce different gods with the same portfolio or not. Could be important that we are all on the same boat in the matter of different pantheons with identical portfolios. As far as we got there now, the gods section is pretty good.
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