THE ANSWER TO: What does "does not stack with" mean?

[Ristamar]

Overlapping Effects

I can see Caliban's reasoning...the rule as written(as the Sage interprits it) completely screws up when you have two weapons of Speed. But that should be sufficiently rare that it really shouldn't matter in most games.

Yeah. I don't particularly mind this ruling, but I am left wondering about exactly what you mentioned here. What happens with two Speed weapons?

Going by what we know now, it seems that the Speed enhancement is just a limited form of Haste, restricting the partial action gained through the enhancement to an attack. Carrying a second Speed weapon apparently offers no additional benefit. It would akin to being the recipient of multiple castings of Haste -- they simply overlap.

 

[Caliban]

No, it wasn't smug. Cal is usually very articulate and informative when he posts a reply. This time, it was just childish.

No, just disinterested. His answer did nothing to resolve the contradiction I pointed out earlier. As such, it really doesn't help.

I'll send my own question to him, although I don't really expect him to change his answer.

As a side note, these attempts of yours to put me down or "score points" off of me are what strike me as childish. I don't find them amusing or clever, please stop.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, I'm going to have to withdraw from this discussion until I understand what Speed does? I'm thinking it just allows that weapon to make an extra attack per attack action. If that's the case, then I can't see why two speed weapons wouldn't get an extra attack each.

If, instead of affecting the weapon, it affects the weilder, then I can see where the issue with two weapons and haste comes from.

IceBear

 

[SpikeyFreak]

No, just disinterested. His answer did nothing to resolve the contradiction I pointed out earlier. As such, it really doesn't help.

I'll send my own question to him, although I don't really expect him to change his answer.

As a side note, these attempts of yours to put me down or "score points" off of me are what strike me as childish. I don't find them amusing or clever, please stop.

Cool. The old Caliban is back.

Who was that way-too civil guy that was posting on the other thread?

In any case, with 2 speed weapons, you get 2 extra attacks (as long as you use both of them). So aparently, if you use your haste partial action, you can't use your speed attacks, because they are basically the same thing.

But wouldn't that mean that you can't use 2 speed weapons to get 2 speed attacks?

Oh, and sorry kreynolds, that does answer my question, I misread the sage's responce because I was so eager to point out that he doesn't really put too much thought into his responces.

--Pro-Caliban Spikey

 

[Ristamar]

In any case, with 2 speed weapons, you get 2 extra attacks (as long as you use both of them). So aparently, if you use your haste partial action, you can't use your speed attacks, because they are basically the same thing.

Is this true? I'm not disagreeing, I just don't have my books near me, and I I don't recall what was stated in the Speed enhancement text.

 

[kreynolds]

As a side note, these attempts of yours to put me down or "score points" off of me are what strike me as childish. I don't find them amusing or clever, please stop.

Cal, I'm not trying to put you down or "score points" and I could care less about popularity. I just don't have any patience for a response such as this.

*shrug* Whatever.

If that's all you have to offer, don't bother offering. I'm not trying to "score points" off of you. You're doing that on your own.

If you disagree with the sage's ruling, that's fine. Once again, I was not trying to be smug. I even stated that in the original post. I was just relaying what Skip told me. Note that I even mentioned that Skip's response was probably going to tick some people off. I said that because I expect the type of response you gave.

I'm done for now.

 

[Uller]

No, it wasn't smug. Cal is usually very articulate and informative when he posts a reply. This time, it was just childish.

Other way around from where I'm standing. Sorry...call 'em as I see them.

When someone says "*shrugs* whatever" and you've got no body language or inflection to go by, it could be admission that he admits he was wrong or doesn't accept the Sage's response but really has nothing left to say. Nothing "childish" about that.

 

[Ristamar]

Ok, I just found this on Monte's old boards (cached by Google).

Just got a response from the sage:

Weapons of Speed:

Do you need to take a full attack action to use the extra attack granted by a speed weapon?

No.

If you are dual wielding speed weapons, do they each get an extra attack?

Yes (however, you *do* need to use the full attacks action to get both extra attacks, because you have to use the full attack action to use both weapons).

So apparently Speed doesn't stack with Haste. However, the Speed enhancement does stack with itself. You can opt to choose one or the other (the Speed attack(s) or the partial action granted by Haste), but not both.

Sound right?

 

[Uller]

Ok, I just found this on Monte's old boards (cached by Google).



So apparently Speed doesn't stack with Haste. However, the Speed enhancement does stack with itself. You can opt to choose one or the other (the Speed attack(s) or the partial action granted by Haste), but not both.

That 'bout sums it up. Caliban's arguement was that this interpritation is a contradiction and the intention of the "stacking line" was to say that you couldn't use the extra "speed" attack as part of an attack from haste.

 

[Ristamar]

That 'bout sums it up. Caliban's arguement was that this interpritation is a contradiction and the intention of the "stacking line" was to say that you couldn't use the extra "speed" attack as part of an attack from haste.

Hmm... alright. I think I'm content with Skip's conservative approach. The prospect of a hasted foe wielding Speed weapons, using the partial action to close, then getting a full iterative of attacks plus Speed attacks is a bit too much for my tastes.