The Arch-Mage and Scrolls

[A Curmudgeon]

Can a arch-mage write a fireball scroll as an acidball with mastery of elements? Could he write it with a higher DC with spell power?

I don't think he should be able to take a scroll and change the nature of it, but I thought it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to scribe his own.

 

[Dross]

Can a arch-mage write a fireball scroll as an acidball with mastery of elements? Could he write it with a higher DC with spell power?

I don't think he should be able to take a scroll and change the nature of it, but I thought it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to scribe his own.

There is nothing stopping the Archmage using Mastery of Elements while scribing a scroll.

A Higher DC from Spell Power? DC is not determined by the Caster level, it is 10 + spell level + appropriate stat (fireball = 10 + 3 + 4 (INT18) = 17).

Generally scrolls are written to use the lowest possible combination to lower costs. There is nothing stopping you upping the caster level, it just costs more $$ & exp. This would make it harder to dispel, easier to penetrate SR, more dice or damage, longer range & duration etc.

 

[irdeggman]

The rules for creating scrolls state you can store a spell
"You can create a scroll of any spell that you know"

The rules also state that you can use metamagic feats while casting a spell to create a scroll (and thus adjust teh Cl accordingly)

The abilities listed for the Archmage do not create new spells known nor are they metamagic effects. So I can't find where one can create a scroll of a class ability.

Now there are metamagic feats that duplicate some of these effects (energy substitution comes to mind)


So I don't think the rules support doing what you are asking for.

 

[A Curmudgeon]

A Higher DC from Spell Power? DC is not determined by the Caster level, it is 10 + spell level + appropriate stat (fireball = 10 + 3 + 4 (INT18) = 17).

Correct. I was typing without thinking.

I'll have to run it by the DMs. I can see the arguments either way for high arcana in scrolls.

 

[TanisFrey]

The rules for creating scrolls state you can store a spell
"You can create a scroll of any spell that you know"

The rules also state that you can use metamagic feats while casting a spell to create a scroll (and thus adjust teh Cl accordingly)

The abilities listed for the Archmage do not create new spells known nor are they metamagic effects. So I can't find where one can create a scroll of a class ability.

Now there are metamagic feats that duplicate some of these effects (energy substitution comes to mind)


So I don't think the rules support doing what you are asking for.

Yes, but Metamagic magic feats incorperated into a scroll raise the effective spell level for cost and XP spent to make the scroll or other item.

 

[irdeggman]

Yes, but Metamagic magic feats incorperated into a scroll raise the effective spell level for cost and XP spent to make the scroll or other item.

You are correct in the fact that using a metamagic feat to make a scroll increses its cost but you are wrong in thinking that it is because the effective spell level has changed. Well actually the term "effective spell level" really has no meaning because the spell level hasn't changed (except for heightened spells) only the basis for variable effects has.

Only Heighten spell changes the spell level.

All others change the CL (which affects variable effects) but has no effect on things like concentration checks and saving throws which DCs are based on spell level.

The reason the cost is more is becasue the cost of a scroll = 25 gp x Spell Level x Caster Level.

 

[A Curmudgeon]

You are correct in the fact that using a metamagic feat to make a scroll increses its cost but you are wrong in thinking that it is because the effective spell level has changed. Well actually the term "effective spell level" really has no meaning because the spell level hasn't changed (except for heightened spells) only the basis for variable effects has.

Only Heighten spell changes the spell level.

All others change the CL (which affects variable effects) but has no effect on things like concentration checks and saving throws which DCs are based on spell level.

The reason the cost is more is becasue the cost of a scroll = 25 gp x Spell Level x Caster Level.

Correct, Aren't you both saying the same thing? Doesn't empower, maximize change the spell level as well?

 

[irdeggman]

Correct, Aren't you both saying the same thing? Doesn't empower, maximize change the spell level as well?

No.

They use spell slots that are higher but the spells are still the same spell level as written.

The "effects" have changed.

For instance an empowered fireball is still a 3rd level spell (wizard version).

It takes up a 5th level slot.

Its effects are increased by 1/2.

So assuming a 9th level wizard (minimum level to get a 5th level slot).

Casting at maximum caster level (you can always cast at lower levels but minimum of 3rd level in this case).

Normal effects are 9d6.

Empowered would be 1 1/2 x 9d6 and use a 5th level slot.

But the saving throw is still as if it was a 3rd level spell.

DC = 10 + spell level + Int bonus (for wizard)

Only heightened spells actually change the spell level (it even says so in the feat description)

"Unlike other metamagic feats, heighten spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level."

 

[A Curmudgeon]

OK I get it. The DC Does not change when you empower a spell even though it's slot is fifth level

Thanks