D&D 4E The 'Big 6' in 4e

[The Myopic Sniper]

Victim,

That might be a feature rather than a bug in my book. But given what I have seen about the design priorities in 4e, I agree that they won't do it in such a direct way (though I could see where it might be something like "provides Int 20 or +6 Int which ever is lower" )

I wouldn't mind stat altering items might move from "permanently on" to a "per encounter" or "per day" type setup. That might be too metagame oriented for some players though.

 

[Agamon]

4E Designers: Just say No to the Big 6!

One of the interviews (or blog posts, can't remember) implied that magic items are indeed more of a "coolness" thing, ala most items from MIC, rather than necessary things to keep up with the Jones'.

 

[Agamon]

I wouldn't mind stat altering items might move from "permanently on" to a "per encounter" or "per day" type setup. That might be too metagame oriented for some players though.

Modifier spells are what bog down combat in 3E. Increasing this is probably not what WotC has in mind....

 

[cerberus2112]

I'd love if magic weapons became something more interesting.

"I have a Sword of Sundering."
"I have a Flaming Sword."
"I have a Sword of Smiting."

No bonus to hit, bonus to damage is through energy (such as +1D6 fire damge) or smiting (+1D6 damage against an enemy twice per day), or decent bonuses to special maneuvers.

 

[zoroaster100]

Flaming swords and such are pretty useless unless they also fix the current problem with ubiquitous energy resistance. Hopefully they will have engergy resistance such that you can only have resistance to one form of energy at a time, or else limited amount of resistance (say 10 max) which burns away after you take 10 points/caster level energy damage (kind of like the stone skin damage resistance mechanic). That way energy damage can start to play a role in combat again.

 

[Li Shenron]

From here

Nice analysis.

No conclusion.

:\

 

[Remathilis]

I'm actually beginning to think magic items should have a static "plus" that never changes, or a growing plus than increases based on user.

Static Plus: All magic items grant a +2 bonus (or +4 to skills) without variance. A magical longsword is a +2 to hit and damage. Magical Armor is +2 to AC above the normal armor bonus. A ring of protection is always +2. The exception is things that up skills: a cloak of elvenkind is a +4 to stealth checks, for example.

This allows all magical items to have a simple plateau that never changes. Lots of other magic items that aren't "big six" items become more attractive (+2 to charisma, +2 to saves, or 20% miss chance?). The downside? +2 is puny at 30th level. Which leads to...

Slider Plus: Magical Items augment you based on your level. If you are 1st-3rd item, a magical sword is inert (masterwork). 4-7th, it becomes a +1 sword. 8-12th +2, 13-17th +3, 18-22nd +4, 23-26th +5, 27-30th +6. Magical additional properties (like flaming) are added as normal, independant of the weapon's plus (so a flaming sword is only +1 in a 5th level PCs hands, but +5 in the 25th level Pcs hands).

This would only apply to "big six" items, other items (like cloaks of displacment or boots of sprinting) wouldn't be affected.

 

[DreamChaser]

This echoes something I was recently talking about with my group. Items or abilities that give a +X to skill / action Y are BORING and frustrating. A long sword +1 is better than a ordinary longsword exactly 5% of the time: If you need a 17 to hit and your modified roll is 16, that +1 helps. If it is ANY OTHER NUMBER it does not. This issue is not really fixed by higher plusses. If you have a +5 long sword and you need a 30 to hit, the +5 is only better than the +4 if your modified roll is 25.

As long as the results of a skill check or attack roll are static (you either hit or you do not / succeed or you do not), I would be thrilled to see +X items and abilities go away to be replaced with something less effective but more fun. Heck a ring of jumping could give a character the ability (1 or 2 times per day) to jump again in mid air instead of a +5 bonus to jump checks. (just as an off the cuff example).

Stat boost items are a little different because they affect so many aspects of your character, but being "must have" items is frustrating. No fighter can really afford to NOT get a strength boosting item, same with rogues and Dex, barbarian and Con, wizard and Int, cleric / monk and Wis, sorcerer / bard and Cha. This strikes me as being too similar to the broken spell test: if no character with the opportunity to choose it would say no, even ignoring all other options to get it (e.g. 3.0 haste) then it is not properly balanced.

It would be interesting if stat boost items make it through but are at once less powerful and more interesting. Girdle of Giant Strength could provide a +2 enhancement bonus and then allow the user to (1 or 2 times per day) use "enlarge" to grow by one or two size categories (increasing strength, damage, etc.) for the duration.

DC

 

[Samnell]

Am I the only one that thinks that this is exactly what is going to happen in 4e? Would it really be 'un-fun' if the Big 6 type magic items just disappeared from the game? To be replaced with all those 'cool' type MIs in the MIC?

I would need an extremely good reason why no one has thought of such incredibly obvious magic items to buy that they wouldn't exist in the world.

But then I adore the Christmas tree effect. I'd really prefer it stay.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

I think there'll still be a place for the Big 6 in D&D, though the nature of the items may change somewhat.

Besides, I could see item bonuses being derived from different sources instead of just magic. Maybe the old +1 weapon will now just be a masterwork weapon, or the +2 weapon is a mithral or adamantine weapon instead of a magic item.

Magic armor may not be the option it used to be, if the SWSE idea of defense comes into play. However, I could see DR, SR, &/or energy resistance come into play here. The big protective items are going to be those that will always stack with other bonuses, like the rings of protection.

Besides, I don't think magic items need some sort of flash-bang effect to be deemed magical. A blessed weapon could simply be a +1 weapon, but the story, magic, history, and ritual behind it could make it a unique item.

Now, if 4e uses the MIC idea of a scaling/upgradable magic item, that's be quite cool (where an item already in possession gets more powerful, instead of ditching out a +1 item for a newly-acquired +2 item).