Ok, I made my first list which was just to get a list of advantages. It is not all inclusive, but it covers the main points. And, as expected, the number of advantages came out fairly close. Please feel free to post your weighing (and I realize that this is totally subjective) and put in what numbers you feel are correct.
I did clean up some duplicates that crept in.
Here is my system for weighing it.
First off, I consider a feat, regardless of how it is acquired, to be the yardstick by which I measure everything else.
I have 6 units of measurement:
0: Disagree with KD that this is anything.
1: Trivial. Usually worth mentioning only because it is apples to apples in the book, but not worth much.
2: Minor. Not worth a good feat. A minor feat. Not much more.
3: Solid. A solid advantage. Worth a feat.
4: Major: Worth more than a feat.
5: Huge: A very large definitive advantage that most people would recognize as a class feature, sure to be called out immediately in most Psion / Sorcerer discussions.
I also gave lower ratings to things which I felt both classes could do, but one class could so slightly better.
I automatically give a 0 score to the Equal list which I will put at the bottom. Most of my ratings will be in the 2 to 4 range. I gave both sides a single 5. If you give one side or the other side a lot of 1s or 5s, it probably means that you are biased.
Total Sorcerer: 49
Total Psion: 67
I also list average here because I do not want people to claim bias solely based on how many advantages came up.
Average Sorcerer: 2.72
Average Psion: 2.91
1 S1: Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. Psions are proficient with 6 simple weapons.
5 S2: Sorcerers are not limited to a single discipline of spells. Psions are limited to a single discipline of powers.
2 S3: Sorcerers have zeroth level spells. Psions do not get zeroth level powers (although some equivalent powers are first level for Psions).
2 S4: Sorcerers can swap out lower level spells as they go up levels. Psions have to use the Psychic Reformation power to do this.
4 S5: Spell / Powers Per Day: Of first and higher level spells, Sorcerers tend to be able to cast more at first level unless the Psions race gives him bonus PP. Psions tend to be able to manifest more (same as Sorcerer level) powers at levels two through seven. Sorcerers then tend to take over at level eight. In other words, Sorcerers can often cast four first level spells at first level whereas first level Psions can typically only manifest 3 first level powers (although, this can be more if the Psion has a 17 Int or a race that gives bonus PP or he takes a feat that gives him bonus PP). Sorcerers have more staying power. When Psions run out of PP, Sorcerers tend to still have spells left over, even if they are lower level spells.
3 S6: 79% of psionic powers (including all psionic powers, not just Psion powers) have a range of Close or less (I'm not going to bother to re-do the percentage for just Psion powers). Sorcerers average a higher percentage of Medium and longer spells.
3 S7: Sorcerers get more spells to choose from ~375 whereas Psions are limited to fewer powers, ~277.
4 S8: Sorcerer can spontaneously put multiple Metamagic feats on spells. Psions can only put one metapsionics on a power unless they have the Psicrystal Containment feat which allows for a second one.
4 S9: Sorcerers do not need a focus in order to Metamagic a spell. Psions have to have their focus available to Metapsionic a power. Note: I'm including the fact that Metamagic on a Sorcerer spell takes a full round action in this merit due to the fact that this is not as much a downside as reacquiring a focus. It is losing a move action versus losing a full round action and more (without using psionic feats).
4 S10: Sorcerers have some bread and butter spells that are considerably more powerful than the Psionic equivalents and easier to acquire when accessible. Examples include Fly, Invisibility, and Greater Invisibility.
4 S11: Sorcerers do not have a focus. Psions do not need to use their focus, but many of the good psionic feats require either using it up or having it available. Since getting it back is a full round action (that may or may not work), either Psionic Meditation (which has a minimum Wisdom of 13) or Psicrystal Containment (which requires 2 feats) or not using feats which use it up is basically required.
2 S12: There are five powers for which Psions have to pay XP whereas Sorcerers do not have to pay XP for the nearly equivalent spell.
2 S13: Sorcerers get access to Shadow Conjuration spells which give them access to a wide variety of lesser powered conjuration effects.
2 S14: Sorcerers get access to Shadow Evocation spells which give them access to a wide variety of lesser powered evocation effects.
2 S15: The Sorcerers primary ability score of Charisma adds to a wider variety of skills and feats. For example, the Leadership feat.
2 S16: Sorcerers can use spells out of the Illusion school of magic. Psions do not really have illusions.
2 S17: Some summoned creatures give Sorcerers the ability to have spells cast which he himself normally cannot cast. Very few Astral Construct abilities are this way.
3 S18: Sorcerers have more spells which are ally friendly which boosts the power or flexibility of an entire party of PCs. Psions have more individual target or self only powers.
2 P1: Psions get a psionic feat at first level where they can get a Psicrystal or some other feat. Sorcerers get a Familiar at first level. They have no chose of an extra feat.
3 P2: Wearing Armor does not have a failure chance for Psions.
2 P3: Although Psions get the same base skill points as Sorcerers, their primary ability score is Int, so they tend to average more skill points.
2 P4: Psions have 7 to 9 (depending on discipline) Class skills available plus they get all of the Knowledge skills as class skills. Sorcerers have 6 Class skills available.
3 P5: Psions gain new level powers on odd levels, starting at level 3. Sorcerers gain new level spells on even levels, starting at level 4.
4 P6: Powers / Spell Known: Of first level powers and higher, Psions have the option of getting more of the highest level of each level of powers than Sorcerers have of getting each level of spells (e.g. at level 6, psions can have 5 4 4, Sorcerers have 4 2 1). This is to the Psions advantage at all levels, including 20th level at 544443336 versus 554443333.
3 P7: Psions get a bonus psionic feat at level 5 (note: I split these out for the same reason as splitting out range scaling and duration scaling for Sorcerers, they are different and unique advantages).
3 P8: Psions get a bonus psionic feat at level 10.
3 P9: Psions get a bonus psionic feat at level 15.
2 P10: Psions get a bonus psionic feat at level 20.
3 P11: Augmented Psion powers tend to increase the DC for each 2 points put in. Sorcerer spells have the same DC as always. Note: I called this out as a different merit than P15 due to it being an extra augmentation that many powers have in addition to other augmentations. In other words, the Psion gets the equivalent of Heighten Spell feat for many of his powers without taking such a feat.
4 P12: Psion powers more than get the equivalent of the Still Spell feat for all powers. PP does not need to be added to get this effect like a spell level needs to be added for Sorcerers.
3 P13: Psion powers get most of and more than the equivalent advantages of the Silent Spell feat. PP does not need to be added to get this effect like a spell level needs to be added for Sorcerers. Psions do need to concentrate to minimize Displays, but even with that, this is still advantage Psion since Sorcerers can only take Still Spell feat and use up a higher slot. The do not get the option of silencing their spells with a Concentration roll.
3 P14: Psion powers get more than the equivalent of the Eschew Materials feat. Many Sorcerer spells have material components that are worth more than 1 GP.
3 P15: Special Augmentation: Psion powers often are the base line equivalent of a Sorcerer’s spell, but then augment into a power that is more powerful than the baseline spell. I include in this most special augmentations including Quickening the power.
4 P16: Psions can gain special abilities via feats that can often be used the vast majority of the time (some are limited to reacquiring the focus) which Sorcerers cannot get without taking a spell (which have shorter durations) or taking a level in a different class, but most often, not at all. These include Expanded Knowledge, Overchannel, Psionic Body, Psionic Dodge, resolving normal attacks as touch attacks via Unavoidable Strike, Fell Shot, or Deep Impact, Speed of Thought, and Up the Walls. I lumped most of the Psionic special feat abilities into this one merit because the extra feats were called out above (see P7 through P10) in individual merits and some of these abilities cannot be used simultaneously. Another way of looking at this is that Psions get the Wild Talent feat for free.
4 P17: Psionic Energy powers are superior to Sorcerer Energy spells. The Psion can change the energy type, or choose a different energy type for a different saving throw type (note: the difference in damage is handled in E5). Sorcerers cannot do this at all in core rules (and need magic items or feats to do it outside of core rules).
1 P18: Psions can get Greater Psionic Penetration for a +8 bonus and they can even get it at first level. I’m explicitly calling this feat out as a separate merit because of how powerful it is. I also know that people will disagree with this and claim that they’d rather have +4 with Greater Spell Penetration all of the time than +8 with Greater Psionic Penetration some of the time, but this is not very realistic within the large scheme of things (due to the fact that there are ways to get back a Psionic Focus quickly and Psions have the extra feats to do that). First off, 40% of Psionic Powers (all powers, not just Psion, but the percentage for just Psions is higher) are affected by this, about 25% of Sorcerer spells are affected. Secondly, what this means in the game is a given creature with Spell Resistance might have a 50% chance with no penetration, 30% chance with Greater Spell Penetration, and 10% with Greater Power Penetration. This almost totally blows away the protection of the creature (and in some cases, does blow it away down to 0%). That extra 20% is quite large and you’ll note that there is virtually nothing in the game that changes the percentage on a D20 by 40%. This is a glaring exception to the normal +1 to +5 bonus rules.
3 P19: Psions have direct "action gain powers" which Sorcerers rarely have access to. Examples of these include Quicken Power, Schism (4th), Temporal Acceleration (6th), and Fission (7th). Effectively what they do is give the psion more actions per combat than his opponents. Sorcerers ability to do this directly tends to be limited to Time Stop (which is a 9th level spell).
2 P20: Psions have powers to directly heal themselves. Sorcerers have to rely upon indirect effects like polymorph or summoning creatures that can heal at very high level.
5 P21: Psions can manifest powers at their highest manifester level every single round until they run too low on points. This ranges from about 3 highest PP powers at level one to at most 22 to 27 (campaign dependent) at level 20. Sorcerers tend to be limited to 4 to 6 of their highest level spell until they get to level 20 where they can get as high as 7.
3 P22: Psions get more "mega-powers" than Sorcerers get "mega-spells". In other words, powers or spells which are extremely powerful and cost XP because of it, typically 8th or 9th level.
2 P23: Astral Constucts are most levels are better combat creatures than Summoned creatures. Additionally, a Psion only needs a single power to access a wide variety of power and utility constructs. Sorcerers are limited in what they can get and need multiple Summoning spells to get creatures of all types of levels.
E1: Hit Points
E2: BAB
E3: Saving Throws
E4: Armor Proficiency
E5: Damage Scaling: Sorcerer spells scale for typically an extra D6 for up to 5 levels, then stop. Psion powers must be augmented to scale, however, Psions can augment them beyond any damage cap. Plus, Psion powers often do more damage in the first place. For example: 5D6+5 versus 5D6 at 5th level and 5D6+5 un-augmented versus 6D6 at 6th is greater damage, it is only less un-augmented damage at levels 7 through 10. Or, 5D10 versus 5D6. The Psion does more un-augmented damage at levels 5 through 7, basically equal at 8, less at 9 and 10. But, he tends to do more augmented damage at all levels. I could have put this into one merit for Sorcerers and a different merit for Psions, but I felt it was a wash.
E6: Craft items.
E7: Summoned creatures can be hedged out by several low level and easy to acquire spells for many classes such as Protection From Evil and Magic Circle of Protection. Astral Constructs are not stopped by these spells, rather there are very few spells that can stop them. They can be stopped by a (Lesser) Globe of Invulnerability (and to a lesser extent, Sanctuary), but so can low level Summon spells. Although there is very little hedging defense against Astral Constructs, Psions also have no real hedging defense against Summoned creatures, so this one is a wash.
E8: There is a not much of a selection of core Prestige Classes for Sorcerers and Psionic Prestige Classes are for Psions. Illithid Slayer is slightly more advantageous than Eldritch Knight, but also limited on enemy selection; Cerebremancer can be better than Mystic Theurge (if the arcane class is Wizard), Thrallherd is about equal to Red Wizard (even giving up manifester levels); Psion Uncarnate is somewhat ok, but Elocater and Metamind are weak. Arch Mage is not much help for a Sorcerer and Loremaster is hard to qualify for. The equivalent PrCs tend to be slightly better for the Psion, but giving up manifester levels makes many of them flavor selections at best. Neither class has real good PrCs to pick from.
I did clean up some duplicates that crept in.
Here is my system for weighing it.
First off, I consider a feat, regardless of how it is acquired, to be the yardstick by which I measure everything else.
I have 6 units of measurement:
0: Disagree with KD that this is anything.
1: Trivial. Usually worth mentioning only because it is apples to apples in the book, but not worth much.
2: Minor. Not worth a good feat. A minor feat. Not much more.
3: Solid. A solid advantage. Worth a feat.
4: Major: Worth more than a feat.
5: Huge: A very large definitive advantage that most people would recognize as a class feature, sure to be called out immediately in most Psion / Sorcerer discussions.
I also gave lower ratings to things which I felt both classes could do, but one class could so slightly better.
I automatically give a 0 score to the Equal list which I will put at the bottom. Most of my ratings will be in the 2 to 4 range. I gave both sides a single 5. If you give one side or the other side a lot of 1s or 5s, it probably means that you are biased.
Total Sorcerer: 49
Total Psion: 67
I also list average here because I do not want people to claim bias solely based on how many advantages came up.
Average Sorcerer: 2.72
Average Psion: 2.91
1 S1: Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. Psions are proficient with 6 simple weapons.
5 S2: Sorcerers are not limited to a single discipline of spells. Psions are limited to a single discipline of powers.
2 S3: Sorcerers have zeroth level spells. Psions do not get zeroth level powers (although some equivalent powers are first level for Psions).
2 S4: Sorcerers can swap out lower level spells as they go up levels. Psions have to use the Psychic Reformation power to do this.
4 S5: Spell / Powers Per Day: Of first and higher level spells, Sorcerers tend to be able to cast more at first level unless the Psions race gives him bonus PP. Psions tend to be able to manifest more (same as Sorcerer level) powers at levels two through seven. Sorcerers then tend to take over at level eight. In other words, Sorcerers can often cast four first level spells at first level whereas first level Psions can typically only manifest 3 first level powers (although, this can be more if the Psion has a 17 Int or a race that gives bonus PP or he takes a feat that gives him bonus PP). Sorcerers have more staying power. When Psions run out of PP, Sorcerers tend to still have spells left over, even if they are lower level spells.
3 S6: 79% of psionic powers (including all psionic powers, not just Psion powers) have a range of Close or less (I'm not going to bother to re-do the percentage for just Psion powers). Sorcerers average a higher percentage of Medium and longer spells.
3 S7: Sorcerers get more spells to choose from ~375 whereas Psions are limited to fewer powers, ~277.
4 S8: Sorcerer can spontaneously put multiple Metamagic feats on spells. Psions can only put one metapsionics on a power unless they have the Psicrystal Containment feat which allows for a second one.
4 S9: Sorcerers do not need a focus in order to Metamagic a spell. Psions have to have their focus available to Metapsionic a power. Note: I'm including the fact that Metamagic on a Sorcerer spell takes a full round action in this merit due to the fact that this is not as much a downside as reacquiring a focus. It is losing a move action versus losing a full round action and more (without using psionic feats).
4 S10: Sorcerers have some bread and butter spells that are considerably more powerful than the Psionic equivalents and easier to acquire when accessible. Examples include Fly, Invisibility, and Greater Invisibility.
4 S11: Sorcerers do not have a focus. Psions do not need to use their focus, but many of the good psionic feats require either using it up or having it available. Since getting it back is a full round action (that may or may not work), either Psionic Meditation (which has a minimum Wisdom of 13) or Psicrystal Containment (which requires 2 feats) or not using feats which use it up is basically required.
2 S12: There are five powers for which Psions have to pay XP whereas Sorcerers do not have to pay XP for the nearly equivalent spell.
2 S13: Sorcerers get access to Shadow Conjuration spells which give them access to a wide variety of lesser powered conjuration effects.
2 S14: Sorcerers get access to Shadow Evocation spells which give them access to a wide variety of lesser powered evocation effects.
2 S15: The Sorcerers primary ability score of Charisma adds to a wider variety of skills and feats. For example, the Leadership feat.
2 S16: Sorcerers can use spells out of the Illusion school of magic. Psions do not really have illusions.
2 S17: Some summoned creatures give Sorcerers the ability to have spells cast which he himself normally cannot cast. Very few Astral Construct abilities are this way.
3 S18: Sorcerers have more spells which are ally friendly which boosts the power or flexibility of an entire party of PCs. Psions have more individual target or self only powers.
2 P1: Psions get a psionic feat at first level where they can get a Psicrystal or some other feat. Sorcerers get a Familiar at first level. They have no chose of an extra feat.
3 P2: Wearing Armor does not have a failure chance for Psions.
2 P3: Although Psions get the same base skill points as Sorcerers, their primary ability score is Int, so they tend to average more skill points.
2 P4: Psions have 7 to 9 (depending on discipline) Class skills available plus they get all of the Knowledge skills as class skills. Sorcerers have 6 Class skills available.
3 P5: Psions gain new level powers on odd levels, starting at level 3. Sorcerers gain new level spells on even levels, starting at level 4.
4 P6: Powers / Spell Known: Of first level powers and higher, Psions have the option of getting more of the highest level of each level of powers than Sorcerers have of getting each level of spells (e.g. at level 6, psions can have 5 4 4, Sorcerers have 4 2 1). This is to the Psions advantage at all levels, including 20th level at 544443336 versus 554443333.
3 P7: Psions get a bonus psionic feat at level 5 (note: I split these out for the same reason as splitting out range scaling and duration scaling for Sorcerers, they are different and unique advantages).
3 P8: Psions get a bonus psionic feat at level 10.
3 P9: Psions get a bonus psionic feat at level 15.
2 P10: Psions get a bonus psionic feat at level 20.
3 P11: Augmented Psion powers tend to increase the DC for each 2 points put in. Sorcerer spells have the same DC as always. Note: I called this out as a different merit than P15 due to it being an extra augmentation that many powers have in addition to other augmentations. In other words, the Psion gets the equivalent of Heighten Spell feat for many of his powers without taking such a feat.
4 P12: Psion powers more than get the equivalent of the Still Spell feat for all powers. PP does not need to be added to get this effect like a spell level needs to be added for Sorcerers.
3 P13: Psion powers get most of and more than the equivalent advantages of the Silent Spell feat. PP does not need to be added to get this effect like a spell level needs to be added for Sorcerers. Psions do need to concentrate to minimize Displays, but even with that, this is still advantage Psion since Sorcerers can only take Still Spell feat and use up a higher slot. The do not get the option of silencing their spells with a Concentration roll.
3 P14: Psion powers get more than the equivalent of the Eschew Materials feat. Many Sorcerer spells have material components that are worth more than 1 GP.
3 P15: Special Augmentation: Psion powers often are the base line equivalent of a Sorcerer’s spell, but then augment into a power that is more powerful than the baseline spell. I include in this most special augmentations including Quickening the power.
4 P16: Psions can gain special abilities via feats that can often be used the vast majority of the time (some are limited to reacquiring the focus) which Sorcerers cannot get without taking a spell (which have shorter durations) or taking a level in a different class, but most often, not at all. These include Expanded Knowledge, Overchannel, Psionic Body, Psionic Dodge, resolving normal attacks as touch attacks via Unavoidable Strike, Fell Shot, or Deep Impact, Speed of Thought, and Up the Walls. I lumped most of the Psionic special feat abilities into this one merit because the extra feats were called out above (see P7 through P10) in individual merits and some of these abilities cannot be used simultaneously. Another way of looking at this is that Psions get the Wild Talent feat for free.
4 P17: Psionic Energy powers are superior to Sorcerer Energy spells. The Psion can change the energy type, or choose a different energy type for a different saving throw type (note: the difference in damage is handled in E5). Sorcerers cannot do this at all in core rules (and need magic items or feats to do it outside of core rules).
1 P18: Psions can get Greater Psionic Penetration for a +8 bonus and they can even get it at first level. I’m explicitly calling this feat out as a separate merit because of how powerful it is. I also know that people will disagree with this and claim that they’d rather have +4 with Greater Spell Penetration all of the time than +8 with Greater Psionic Penetration some of the time, but this is not very realistic within the large scheme of things (due to the fact that there are ways to get back a Psionic Focus quickly and Psions have the extra feats to do that). First off, 40% of Psionic Powers (all powers, not just Psion, but the percentage for just Psions is higher) are affected by this, about 25% of Sorcerer spells are affected. Secondly, what this means in the game is a given creature with Spell Resistance might have a 50% chance with no penetration, 30% chance with Greater Spell Penetration, and 10% with Greater Power Penetration. This almost totally blows away the protection of the creature (and in some cases, does blow it away down to 0%). That extra 20% is quite large and you’ll note that there is virtually nothing in the game that changes the percentage on a D20 by 40%. This is a glaring exception to the normal +1 to +5 bonus rules.
3 P19: Psions have direct "action gain powers" which Sorcerers rarely have access to. Examples of these include Quicken Power, Schism (4th), Temporal Acceleration (6th), and Fission (7th). Effectively what they do is give the psion more actions per combat than his opponents. Sorcerers ability to do this directly tends to be limited to Time Stop (which is a 9th level spell).
2 P20: Psions have powers to directly heal themselves. Sorcerers have to rely upon indirect effects like polymorph or summoning creatures that can heal at very high level.
5 P21: Psions can manifest powers at their highest manifester level every single round until they run too low on points. This ranges from about 3 highest PP powers at level one to at most 22 to 27 (campaign dependent) at level 20. Sorcerers tend to be limited to 4 to 6 of their highest level spell until they get to level 20 where they can get as high as 7.
3 P22: Psions get more "mega-powers" than Sorcerers get "mega-spells". In other words, powers or spells which are extremely powerful and cost XP because of it, typically 8th or 9th level.
2 P23: Astral Constucts are most levels are better combat creatures than Summoned creatures. Additionally, a Psion only needs a single power to access a wide variety of power and utility constructs. Sorcerers are limited in what they can get and need multiple Summoning spells to get creatures of all types of levels.
E1: Hit Points
E2: BAB
E3: Saving Throws
E4: Armor Proficiency
E5: Damage Scaling: Sorcerer spells scale for typically an extra D6 for up to 5 levels, then stop. Psion powers must be augmented to scale, however, Psions can augment them beyond any damage cap. Plus, Psion powers often do more damage in the first place. For example: 5D6+5 versus 5D6 at 5th level and 5D6+5 un-augmented versus 6D6 at 6th is greater damage, it is only less un-augmented damage at levels 7 through 10. Or, 5D10 versus 5D6. The Psion does more un-augmented damage at levels 5 through 7, basically equal at 8, less at 9 and 10. But, he tends to do more augmented damage at all levels. I could have put this into one merit for Sorcerers and a different merit for Psions, but I felt it was a wash.
E6: Craft items.
E7: Summoned creatures can be hedged out by several low level and easy to acquire spells for many classes such as Protection From Evil and Magic Circle of Protection. Astral Constructs are not stopped by these spells, rather there are very few spells that can stop them. They can be stopped by a (Lesser) Globe of Invulnerability (and to a lesser extent, Sanctuary), but so can low level Summon spells. Although there is very little hedging defense against Astral Constructs, Psions also have no real hedging defense against Summoned creatures, so this one is a wash.
E8: There is a not much of a selection of core Prestige Classes for Sorcerers and Psionic Prestige Classes are for Psions. Illithid Slayer is slightly more advantageous than Eldritch Knight, but also limited on enemy selection; Cerebremancer can be better than Mystic Theurge (if the arcane class is Wizard), Thrallherd is about equal to Red Wizard (even giving up manifester levels); Psion Uncarnate is somewhat ok, but Elocater and Metamind are weak. Arch Mage is not much help for a Sorcerer and Loremaster is hard to qualify for. The equivalent PrCs tend to be slightly better for the Psion, but giving up manifester levels makes many of them flavor selections at best. Neither class has real good PrCs to pick from.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
