Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Black Company Campaign
Soulmage said:
I think this is a key difference here. My intent was never to exactly replicate the books and their story-line in a roleplaying format. Doing so limits the options of the players too much.
I'd have to say that you and your players
perceive a false limitation, likely based on a desire to play D&D as opposed to playing The Black Company.
My intent was to take the characters and setting of The Black Company series, and create a standard D&D world in it, using The Lady, The Taken, The Dominator and all those other villains I loves so much. Where necessary I adapted the setting to fit the game, rather than vice versa. I know this is a cardinal sin for "strict constructionists" but my intent was to make the best D&D game I could, not the best recreation of the novels I could. I leave that to Master Cook himself.
Thus there's no reason for you to have defended your setting. The best I can tell, you've felt a need to run it up a flag because after a link to it was posted early in this discussion, it was dismissed by most of the participants. Why? Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but I saw no reason to dwell over the rules of a setting that, by your own admission, didn't even
try to be true to the material or represent the world outside of description and NPC Alignments. You indicate limitations as being your reason, yet I can tell you that these limitations are only restrictive due to a false dependancy on what wouldn't be included, namely high magic levels, clerical healing and super-heroics.
For instance, Mr. Cook never intended his Dread Empire to co-exist in the same world as the Black Company. But I found that given the Eastern flavor, and the ominous feel, I felt that the Dread Empire made a fabulous primary nation for an Eastern Continent. No Eastern continent is ever mentioned in the books.
No harm in that...
Funny, though. You mention it to be a Black Company pre-cursor. Were you, by chance, merely stating your own desire for it to be so?
fyi, I've stolen some names from FR, and adapted them to the BC world, not vice versa. Sorry, but I really dislike the goody-good feel of FR and run a game completely the opposite in feel. (see below)
From all I can tell, it's the only part that's completely opposite. Again, I point at high-magic, divine healing and super-heroics. I'll now add Dwarves to the list.
Any of my PCs will tell you that I've managed to amply retain this element. My world is extremely dark and gritty. The dark feel of the world, the NPCs, and the map as described in the books were in my mind the three most important elements of making the translation to RPG. As such I've gone to great lengths to preserve each of them.
The question is, though: How much magic do the PCs have? Do they have vorpal weapons or dragon scale armor? Do they wield spells in the standard D&D fashion?
Describing something as grim and dark and actually developing a rules-set that makes it grim and dark are two different things.
In fact, the very darkness of the world often frustrates my players, many of whom are accustomed to a more traditional feel such as Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk. They usually play good characters, and find themselves trapped in a society dominated by lawful-evil. Just about every major NPC in my game is evil (or neutral with evil tendancies) and the players spend a great deal of time (just as in the books) trying to stay out from underfoot.
Of which, with high magic, divine healing and super-heroics, is 100x's easier than a Black Company Campaign would be.
In fact, one of my players once asked me, "If the evil people get all the wealth and power, and respect, what do the good guys get?" To which I smugly replied, "The moral high-ground."
Alas, something I can agree with. However, in a world of high-magic, divine healing, and super-heroics, one has to wonder why the situation never changes. Unless, of course, you've completely overpowered the villains with even higher magic, better divine healing and super-duper heroics.
There are strong elements of this too in my world, it just mainly takes place "off-stage." For the characters to be directly embroiled in these clashes at anything but the highest of levels would lead to a very short campaign. Thus far, none of my parties have really reached the "Player" level yet, although a couple characters (notably evil ones) have in "retirement."
Sounds more like a choice of your own. I've had no problems incorporating such intrigue in my setting at all party levels.
I'd say FAR less than even this. Perhaps 1/100th of what the core rules indicate.
Can't tell from your web site. If anything, the section on Vorpal Weapons and Dragon Hide Armor tell a different story.
True, individual characters are the essence of D&D.
Correct. D&D, not The Black Company. The Black Company is
about politics, intrigue, warfare and survival, with the "brotherhood" of The Company paramount.
Granted, again an essential element of D&D.
It's only essential due to a false perception. I've done fine for years without it.
You have to live to that level first.
Only because you seem to have put a level requirement on intrigue and politics.
Yuck.
You're probably right. However my campaign is a D&D campaign set in the Black Company world. Your hypothetical "purist BC" campaign couldn't truly be considered D&D anymore.
No, you're hypocritical "play like me or you're not playing D&D" is a false limitation, one I don't live with.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I wanted to run a D&D game, not a basically home-brewed system.
And rather than play by-the-book D&D in a setting designed to support by-the-book D&D, you've used TBC as little more than a back drop. Which is fine. If there's an issue, it's that you've decided to defend your by-the-book-D&D take on TBC in a thread discussing
alternate methods of portraying the setting for no reason other than the participants not paying much heed to your website.
All true if you're willing to force the plot down the player's throats, rather than let the plot develop naturally.
Nice little twist of words there, but let me remind you: You indicated that a
strict adherence to the source material would mean that the PCs would have little effect on the world. That, like every other
fact you've attempted to present as "must be's", has been proven false. Thus, it isn't the environment of the setting that would limit PCs (and their Players) from doing such things, but rather the DM's presentation of opportunity.
After all, if characters of lesser power (compared to Core standards) couldn't have an effect on world matters in a Black Company campaign, it would be because the DM has made it impossible for them to do so. The books, however, tell a different story, as such characters are usually the main focus and several times manage to change
everything.
If standard D&D-type characters (high magic, divine healing, super heroics) are truly needed in a setting where such characters were never part of the equation, I would blame the DM for not being able to properly portray the setting.
I think we're both on the same page at this point. I was a D&D player long before the books were ever published, and I like to play D&D set in that world. While I'm a rabid fan of the books, that does require some adaptation from the source.
Some, yes. Thing is, you've done
a lot more than some.
Anyway, good luck to you.
And to you.
