The Book of Exalted Deeds - It's Here! (merged - full ToC posted)

[allenw]

Can a sorcerer with Vow of Poverty carry valuable material components? And Foci?

If not, VoP seems viable for monks only...

Vow of Poverty allows you to carry and use a spell component pouch, but not to own expensive material components or foci. If you need to use such things (and many casters get by fine without using spells that require them), you have two options per "Other Ramifications of Poverty," BoED p. 30:
1: "Beg components from other party members, who are probably gaining as much benefit from having the spell cast as the caster is." Personally I think allowing this is cheesy, but that's what the book says. It also says you can drink a friend's potion, for example, but not "borrow" an item.
2: "An ascetic spellcaster can sacrifice experience points in place of expensive components, with 1 XP equivalent to 5 gp value of components."

Note that it *doesn't* say that you can own or use a Holy Symbol, even a wooden one. I think that's probably an oversight.

 

[kilamanjaro]

I noticed that the Apostle of Peace can use protective magic items like bracers and rings, but one of the requirements is the Vow of Poverty Feat. So are the requirments an error or is the text saying protective items are allowed?

 

[Vecna]

So, uh, anyone want to know anything else about the book? Or is it time to min/max some Vow of Poverty'd characters?

You are right, as usual this kind type of thread get too "specialized" quite soon...

What about the Slayer of Domiel PrC?
And the Stigmata feat?

Thanks!

 

[allenw]

I noticed that the Apostle of Peace can use protective magic items like bracers and rings, but one of the requirements is the Vow of Poverty Feat. So are the requirments an error or is the text saying protective items are allowed?

Given the errors and contradictions already discovered, I wouldn't be surprised if allowing the AoP to use protective items is a typo (or a think-o). If not, I'd say that the ability to use protective items is a special class feature of the AoP, not available to "regular" VoP folks.

 

[JoeBlank]

Just wanted to echo a word of thanks to the creators and early-purchasers for sharing info with us.

This book was pretty low on my list a week ago, but after reading this thread I just added it to an order I am placing today.

I find myself wondering why I am more excited about BoED than I was about BoVD. Evil is so fun and cool. Maybe it is because BoED has a lot more info, both crunch and fluff, that a player can put to use, whereas BoVD is primarily a DM resource. Of course, others may play in evil campaigns, and therefore find more use for BoVD.

BoED satisfies my player and DM resource needs, all in one handy package.

 

[JPL]

Picked it up Sunday. Which is kinda appropriate.

I'm somewhat concerned about the Vow of Poverty. That's some pretty serious mojo there...if I were playing a monk, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

I also don't know if I like having Sacred Vow as a prereq for the other vows. Just seems strange that you would need to take a vow in order to take a vow, y'know?

But all in all, it's interesting to see some attempt to make poverty, chastity, nonviolence, and other strange ideas into viable options for PCs.

 

[Joshua Randall]

What about the Slayer of Domiel PrC?

The Slayer of Domiel PrC is similar to the Assassin PrC. The Slayer pre-reqs are Lawful Good (!), Hide & Move Silently 8 ranks, Sanctify Martial Strike, Servant of the Heavens, sneak attack +3d6, and evasion class ability. Slayers gain sneak attack progression, a death touch progressing to 4/day at 10th level, detect evil at 1st level, and spell progression like the Assassin (although a Slayer's spells are divine, based on Wisdom, and prepared like a cleric's).

I think the Slayer is a weaker PrC than the Assassin. Death touch is substantially worse than an Assassin's death attack. Not only must you touch the victim, you roll 1d6 per Slayer level to see if you kill him - meaning that Slayers are extremely unlikely to kill anyone with more HD/levels than they have Slayer levels. And of course the Slayer will always have fewer PrC levels than an opponent of equal CR, so... pfft!

There's also an issue of multi-ability dependency (MAD), because Sanctify Martial Strike requires Cha 15; Hide & Move Silently require good Dex; and casting Slayer spells requires good Wis. Oof.

And the Stigmata feat?

This is a weird one. You take 2 points of temporary Con damage (or more) to heal 1 hp/level by touching someone. If you touch multiple people they each get healed at the 1 hp/lvl per 2 Con damage rate. Those you touch also get new saves versus disease with a sacred bonus equal to the amount of Con damage you took. (Oh yeah - as a pre-req for this feat you need Nimbus of Light, another exalted feat.)

 

[Shazman]

The Slayer of Domiel PrC is similar to the Assassin PrC. The Slayer pre-reqs are Lawful Good (!), Hide & Move Silently 8 ranks, Sanctify Martial Strike, Servant of the Heavens, sneak attack +3d6, and evasion class ability. Slayers gain sneak attack progression, a death touch progressing to 4/day at 10th level, detect evil at 1st level, and spell progression like the Assassin (although a Slayer's spells are divine, based on Wisdom, and prepared like a cleric's).

I think the Slayer is a weaker PrC than the Assassin. Death touch is substantially worse than an Assassin's death attack. Not only must you touch the victim, you roll 1d6 per Slayer level to see if you kill him - meaning that Slayers are extremely unlikely to kill anyone with more HD/levels than they have Slayer levels. And of course the Slayer will always have fewer PrC levels than an opponent of equal CR, so... pfft!

There's also an issue of multi-ability dependency (MAD), because Sanctify Martial Strike requires Cha 15; Hide & Move Silently require good Dex; and casting Slayer spells requires good Wis. Oof.

This is a weird one. You take 2 points of temporary Con damage (or more) to heal 1 hp/level by touching someone. If you touch multiple people they each get healed at the 1 hp/lvl per 2 Con damage rate. Those you touch also get new saves versus disease with a sacred bonus equal to the amount of Con damage you took. (Oh yeah - as a pre-req for this feat you need Nimbus of Light, another exalted feat.)

The slayer PrC was the main reason I was thinking about getting this book, now I'm definitely not getting it. Why is WotC so against an 'assassain-like' PrC that non-evil characters can qualify for without having to jump through a bunch of hoops and giving up valuable feat slots? The assassain is ridiculously easy to qualify for and it's spells get better with every supplement. It's so frustrating. I'm dying for a non-evil assassain class. Aaarrrrrggghhhh!!!!

 

[Joshua Randall]

If you believe that assassination is not inherently evil, then just remove the evil requirement from the core Assassin PrC, and you're all set.

If you're looking for a PrC that might fill a similar role, check out the Stalker of Kharash - it's tailor-made for rangers, pumping their ranger spells/day while adding Scent of Evil, Favored Enemy-Evil, Hide in Plain Sight, Track Evil, and Smite Evil. d8 HD, Good BAB, Good Ref, 6 skill points. Reqs are NG, Hide/MvSilent 8 ranks, Alertness, Favored of the Companions, Track.

 

[Mercule]

Would you want to play a Paladin who could only wield a quarter staff and couldn't wear armor and couldn't even buy armor for his steed?

Well, for the first couple of years that I played (1E), that's pretty much how I read it. I was pretty opposed to the idea of a Paladin in full plate.

I totally buy the "knight in shining armor" concept for Paladin, now. Still, every now and then, it does seem odd.