barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
*Shrugs, blushes, rubs toe in the dirt.*Buttercup said:
Aw, shucks.
And I haven't forgotten I owe you a map, either. It IS coming, I promise.
-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
The Book of Vile Darkness - it is mine, review within
- Thread starter Isida Kep'Tukari
- Start date
Aw, shucks.
And I haven't forgotten I owe you a map, either. It IS coming, I promise.
Zelda Themelin said:
The major ones at least are on par with the most powerful solars.
A 22 HD (Standard) solar has a CR 19
A 33 HD one has a CR of 20
and so on and so forth up to a 66 HD solar having a CR of 23.
Graz'zt is thus more powerful than the most powerful solar with a CR as stated in the book.
Time to add my two cents (or more).
First of all, I don't really care how they statted out the archfiends and such. I'll look them over and use the stats if I like them, but I won't lose any sleep over it if I don't.
What I'm more interested in is the entire book. How useful do the feats seem? Is there anything especially cool about them? I read the initial review, but I'm definitely interested in seeing other people's opinions about the whole book. I've (personally) gotten bored with all of the people griping about how the archfiends were statted.
So, for a couple of questions about the spells too. What kind of spells were in the book? Straight-out damage your opponent spells? Hunt-down your opponent spells? Make your opponent cry like a sissy girl because he's so scared spells? Make your opponent freak out and want to beat you down even more because you went after their loved one spells? Also, what kinds of penalties and restrictions (as were mentioned in the initial review) are associated with the spells? Temporary ability damage to yourself when casting, etc.
What else? Oh yeah. Other opinions on the equipment found in the book. Are the trapped armors being really mean to your players (effectively taking away possible gear for their use/selling at a later point), etc? Do the traps have to be found through magical means or can a Rogue use their Search skill to detect them? Details please.
In closing, I'll just revisit the archfiend topic quickly. If they statted them as divine beings, I'd probably be annoyed. If they did them as EL beings, I'd probably be annoyed. They'd be wasted (to me) pages, pages which I have to pay for. I say go to WotC and suggest a web enhancement for the book. They could be interesting to see, but not something I'm interested in paying extra for.
Oh, and we are a niche community in a niche market. Add to the fact of our niche status that not everyone is going to post their comments on the subject, this thread here is even more niche-d. You could always start a poll in another thread to see how people think the archfiends should have been treated, but for the love of gah, stop arguing about it in this thread!
First of all, I don't really care how they statted out the archfiends and such. I'll look them over and use the stats if I like them, but I won't lose any sleep over it if I don't.
What I'm more interested in is the entire book. How useful do the feats seem? Is there anything especially cool about them? I read the initial review, but I'm definitely interested in seeing other people's opinions about the whole book. I've (personally) gotten bored with all of the people griping about how the archfiends were statted.
So, for a couple of questions about the spells too. What kind of spells were in the book? Straight-out damage your opponent spells? Hunt-down your opponent spells? Make your opponent cry like a sissy girl because he's so scared spells? Make your opponent freak out and want to beat you down even more because you went after their loved one spells? Also, what kinds of penalties and restrictions (as were mentioned in the initial review) are associated with the spells? Temporary ability damage to yourself when casting, etc.
What else? Oh yeah. Other opinions on the equipment found in the book. Are the trapped armors being really mean to your players (effectively taking away possible gear for their use/selling at a later point), etc? Do the traps have to be found through magical means or can a Rogue use their Search skill to detect them? Details please.
In closing, I'll just revisit the archfiend topic quickly. If they statted them as divine beings, I'd probably be annoyed. If they did them as EL beings, I'd probably be annoyed. They'd be wasted (to me) pages, pages which I have to pay for. I say go to WotC and suggest a web enhancement for the book. They could be interesting to see, but not something I'm interested in paying extra for.
Oh, and we are a niche community in a niche market. Add to the fact of our niche status that not everyone is going to post their comments on the subject, this thread here is even more niche-d. You could always start a poll in another thread to see how people think the archfiends should have been treated, but for the love of gah, stop arguing about it in this thread!
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi Psion mate!
Same thing. If they were 'done right' they would be useful n'est ce pas.
As I mentioned previously all you have to do is make them deities and have seperate stats for them and their avatars.
Deities are a challenge for epic PCs; Avatars are a challenge for powerful yet non-epic PCs.
Of course this doesn't work with the stats in Deities & Demigods primarily because they made a total mess of the Avatars - who are practically identical to the Deities themselves!
yours truly said:
Psion said:
Same thing. If they were 'done right' they would be useful n'est ce pas.
Psion said:
As I mentioned previously all you have to do is make them deities and have seperate stats for them and their avatars.
Deities are a challenge for epic PCs; Avatars are a challenge for powerful yet non-epic PCs.
Of course this doesn't work with the stats in Deities & Demigods primarily because they made a total mess of the Avatars - who are practically identical to the Deities themselves!
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi there Icebear!
Its a good book - I thoroughly recommend it.
No they are totally consistent with Deities & Demigods.
Also I think the overlap of D&Dg rules they had to print only took about 2 pages.
Not at all. The real reason was to reduce the Demon Princes/Archdevils to a measure of power whereupon they could be used by the lowest common denominator of people while still retaining a shred of their vaunted power.
Upper Krust said:
IceBear said:
Its a good book - I thoroughly recommend it.
IceBear said:
No they are totally consistent with Deities & Demigods.
Also I think the overlap of D&Dg rules they had to print only took about 2 pages.
IceBear said:
Not at all. The real reason was to reduce the Demon Princes/Archdevils to a measure of power whereupon they could be used by the lowest common denominator of people while still retaining a shred of their vaunted power.
I hate to admit it, but my gaming group may have to make an addition to Orcus. Since he is a lesser god in FR, he will be more powerful than the BoVD version. If we do this, and thats a BIG IF, I forsee one of two things happening:
1. We use the guidelines layed out in the BoVD. If these arent specific enough then we could move onto...
2. Give Orcus the paragon template from the ELH! Now that would make him super-powerful!
The most likely outcome is that we will not change him at all, and just start thinking of Orcus as a chump who is not worth the trouble. That will be ashame. He was our most famous adversary in 1st and 2nd edition D&D.
1. We use the guidelines layed out in the BoVD. If these arent specific enough then we could move onto...
2. Give Orcus the paragon template from the ELH! Now that would make him super-powerful!
The most likely outcome is that we will not change him at all, and just start thinking of Orcus as a chump who is not worth the trouble. That will be ashame. He was our most famous adversary in 1st and 2nd edition D&D.
herald
First Post
You may want to look through Great modron march and dead gods for planescape to understand what he has been through lately.
I could easily see that the Orcus that is writen in the BOVD might not be the real Orcus....
Hmm....., heehee, bwhaa, bwhaahaahaa, BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, bWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
(oops, over the top.)
I could easily see that the Orcus that is writen in the BOVD might not be the real Orcus....
Hmm....., heehee, bwhaa, bwhaahaahaa, BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, bWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
(oops, over the top.)
Grazzt
Demon Lord
greymarch said:
You make it sound like its a bad thing to have to change something. Change it. So what. It doesnt mean anything bad is gonna happen. There is no way WotC will ever release a book that 100% of its buyers agree with. Hell, the internet is a small place in the gaming community and look at how many people disagree with the MM, MM2, ELH, etc. Now multiple that by the millions of people in the world that game and don't post on boards like this and the people that are unhappy with something grows exponentially.
If it doesn't suit your campaign's needs, change it. Its easy. And it doesn't invalidate your campaign. It makes it more YOUR campaign than just another FR clone. And the WotC police won't show up at your door if you do change something (hence the reasons for the variant and optional rules scattered throughout the DMG, PHB, etc.)
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