The Boondock Saints - your opinion?

[Dakkareth]

[I'm posting this in here instead of in the Off-Topic forum, because I'm hoping to balance staying within the framework of the movie and not venturing into RL religion and politics (more than is inavoidable) on the one hand and honest discussion on the other. If the thread steps over the line at any point, I'd like to apologize.]

I recently rented "The Boondock Saints" as DVD and watched it twice. The mixture of coolness, determination and action blew me away and yet I was appalled by the themes it played on. In terms of enjoyment IMO the movie is simply great. Still, the question that is posed implicitly throughout the movie and explicitly at the end, the question that is the major source of disagreement about it, is "In your opinion, are the "Saints" doing the right thing?".

When I first watched the film, the answer was obvious to me and the thought didn't even enter my mind, that anyone could see it differently: Of course not. But then in another thread I got this reply*:

Some of us think that is a good ending. The antagonists, well some of them, are cold blooded mafia killers.

In subsequent searchings I found that there are many people who think this way and I got intrigued, hence my creating this thread. Simply vote for what in your opinion is true and elaborate or comment, if you like.

Again, it's a fine line, but let's try to keep away from overly religious or political posts.

*: I can remove the quote, if the original poster wants it.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

I think you are looking too closely at this. It is an action-shootum flick. As such, morally and ethically it is little different from the scores of other action-shootum flick. The good guys are not people you would want to met, but the bad guys are horrific and so get what's coming to them - fists, knives, bullets, bombs, etc.

 

[Viking Bastard]

On a related but slightly off-topic note, whatever happened to the sequal?

 

[Dakkareth]

[I hope, I'm not overstepping the line myself.]

The three "Saints" are fanatics, that much is clear to me from the beginning. They aren't believers, they aren't just fundamentalists, they take their belief for absolute and allow nothing else. In their eyes they have a mission from their god. And my gut-reaction says, fanatics are always wrong. People claiming to act at the command of their god are insane. Sure, they may believe in something good, they may have laudable aims, but it is the nature of any fanatic to be blind to circumstances and evidence to the contrary, to be much too extreme and unreasonable in their judgement and actions. Even though they *might* mean well, the consequences will turn out bad and sooner or later a good cause will be twisted. In the end more evil will come of it that would be without it.

In my opinion the movie is about the danger of such fanaticism. It was made years before 9/11, yet it could well be a comment on it. The McManus brothers embark upon a 'holy war', a crusade against the evil they see in the world - does that ring a bell? A whole belltower maybe? In the figure of agent Smecker this is represented: He sympathizes with the cause of the brothers, even helps them, risks his life for them, yet at the end he is appalled himself. When he witnesses the revelation of the "Saints", the encompassing definition of evil, the promise of infinite slaughter and the execution illustrating the new era of vigilantism, Smecker realizes what will become of this, realizes what he has done.

I don't like the fact, that the big fishes of crime often manage to evade imprisonment, the indifference of good men is indeed a great evil (and one I'm as guilty of as many others), but I also believe in certain ethics and can't accept arbitrary killing, not even non-lethal vigilantism as way of resolving these problems. To really do this society must change, evolve, grow beyond what it is today. Murdering 'evil' people left and right only creates more suffering.

EDIT:

I think you are looking too closely at this. It is an action-shootum flick.

Matrix is also just an action flick, but that doesn't make the questions alluded to less valid. Fight Club also has a lot of action, but it still raises interesting issues. In my opinion the implications of a movie shouldn't be ignored because of its genre. And where there is disagreement (and there is about this subject), discussion is worth it.

 

[Krieg]

I'm guessing that you're not a big fan of Frailty then eh Dakkareth?

 

[Felix]

Does anyone remember exactly what the Saints forbid at the end of the movie? It went something like...

"You shall not rape, kill, or [something-something], and that is something that people of all faiths, of all beliefs can agree on. And if you do, you shall meet our justice..."

Or something like that. Anybody know?

 

[Berandor]

I think within the constraints of the movie, they are doing the right thing. If they did it in Real Life (tm), then it would be wrong (Bad Buffy!).

But it's not our reality. It's a cool as heck and yet desperately grim movie reality, where cops dress up and kiss mobsters to gain entrance into their hideout. And in that world, they're doing good.

 

[Thanee]

Of course they are doing the right thing, they entertain the audience.

It's a movie, remember!?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Oh, and in germany - if this was for real - they would go to prison for the rest of their pathetic lives (together with their adversaries, whom they didn't catch yet, if they get caught, that is). Armed vigilance (I think that's how it is called!?) is a crime. Murder is a crime, too. Being on a mission from god (or any other authority) is no excuse (it might save you from prison and get you locked up in a sanatory, tho).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Eosin the Red]

I throughly enjoyed the movie and base some of my Dark Champions (Vigilante Game) characters off of characters in this film. Do I believe that it was "right" in the real world? Nope, but then I don't believe that hacking a goblin to bits is right in the real world either. In games and fiction vehicles, diabolical evil recieves one punishment from my troup - an express ticket to the underworld. They reflect that evil should not be permitted to exist - but that is at least partially what fantasy is about - expressing actions that are socially impossible.

I loved BDS and the heroes with their particular world view were refreshingly done. IRL they would scare the holy crap out of me but it ain't real life.