The Boondock Saints - your opinion?

In your opinion, are the "Saints" doing the right thing?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 59.5%
  • No

    Votes: 9 21.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 5 11.9%
  • I haven't seen the movie

    Votes: 3 7.1%

I loved the movie in it's own right as a shoot 'em up flick, but at the end I found myself plauged wth the same moral dilemma. The answer I came to, was that yes, the Saints are right. I myself have embarked on a few bits of vigilante justice, although on a much, much, smaller and gentler scale (ie. beating up the school bully, doing one of my best friends a favour and rightously kicking the ass of the guys who jumped him, and on one occasion I halted a mugging). The Saints themselves are right upstanding and in their belief. Their actions end up seeming apalling to outside viewers, but from their perspective it was their only choice. I tend to believe in the grey tones of Right and Wrong. Their actions were wrong by societal standards, however they acted in the only conscionable way they could. To that end, I believe that anyone who adheres to their own code so strongly, must be right. Now, on the Good/Evil axis, their actions are Evil. Their end goals however, are Good. It's truly a toss up. In short, I believe they were Right in Action, but Evil in Deed, if only for that they live in a society where vigilanteism is unnaceptable.
 

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Long, long post...

In a world where apathy and moral distancing has become the status quo, it is easy to label an action right or wrong, good or evil. This is an outgrowth of what I term the politics of the other (whereyby one defines ones view in opposition to something else.) Everyone has this mechanic of thinking ingrained in them from birth. It is how most of human civilisation, as it currently stands, thinks. It iss more of a generalized Them and Us. (Despite protestations that the world is actually gray, common patterns of thought will fall back on this.)

In his address to the congregation, the priest speaks of the evil of good people doing nothing. This then sets the tone of the rest of the movie.

I would argue the point that the Brothers McManus are not fanatics. They are not going out to right every wrong, and stuff the notion of their God down the throats of heretics and pagans.

What they are doing (in so far as we can glean of their motives) is enforcing a code of behaviour, which can be morally and ethically (and moral/ethical values themselves are something which people are not naturally born, it is a learned thing) followed by the majority of the civilised world. Murder, rape and theft are terms that are not given positive values in most civilisations on this world. Indeed, each is punishable to one degree or another under statute law. Rape is also morally repugnant to most people.

But the values attached to each of those terms is relative to the culture/civilisation applying them. And those civilisations and cultures which in eons past thrived on murder and rape are vilified in hindsight. (Looking at Norse history whose, although popularised through myth, main activity to gain wealth and status was reaving, and institutionalised slavery for some part of their rise.)

And this is not even touching on the concept of double standards.

What does this have to do with the topic? Our reliance on other people to determine right and wrong has removed us from the messiness of the world at large. We have become cerebrally removed from the actions, but are encouraged to pass judgement on them, by a set of values to which we have been indoctrinated.

I am not saying that all of our values are faulty, but we (as a whole) have ceased to question the validity of actions taken on our behalf.

So, are the brothers McManus and their father, acting with the right intent?

Yes. Absolutely. They have assumed the stance of acting for the values to which each and everyone one of us has agreed, but is doing nothing about. (I mean this in the greater sense - how many people on the street would raise a hand to stop a pursesnatcher, how many people would keep on walking after they had heard a cry for help. Quite a few. The majority of people, I would say. Including (sad to say) myself in most instances. I once did interfere with the rape of a girl, because it was repugnant that this would occur, but I did not do a blessed thing to stop a thief after he had snatched a purse.)

Are the brothers McManus and their father doing something illegal?

From a statute law perspective, yes. Violent vigilantism is a punishable crime, because people are not allowed to enact correctional actions on their value system - that right was given up and passed to those people put into authority.

Phew - I rambled on a bit, didn't I? Some (perhaps even many) people will disagree with the opinions and statements I have made above. But rememeber that I was not talking about individuals. I was talking about the human race as a whole.
 

Well, as the dissenting opinion that prompted this whole thread, I must say it is nice to see I'm not the only one who holds that the Saints are in the right. I think what we'll mostly find is that for the most part, moral relatavists will be split on the issue ( as they tend to be anyway) while those who subcribe to aboslute morality will tend to say yes. But that's just my opinion, could be wrong there.

Heck yeah I believe in capital punishment. If they'd let me I'd pull the switch. Where do I sign up? I want to get busy. I want to get busy.
 

I might be a moral relativist, but I value the BDS's ability to do something about a situation. It's easy to pretend and while morality and ethics tend to be judged by others, I think I can admire them for having convictions. Do I think they deserve to be called Saints? Probably not. Anti-heroes perhaps or Dark heroes. But while they might be breaking the law, they do so with a moral admiration for what is, they believe, a society in chaos.

I think the main problem is when you define that all life is sacred. If that is so, then we can NEVER kill no matter the circumstances. That leads to evil winning of course though it has the value of being morally more correct. Now is all life valueable is a better question and if only some of it is, how do we know which we want? Probably since we believe in life, we want things that encourage and grow life, grow trust, grow respect for our fellows. When we lose that, that's when things tend to get murky.

People speak of fanaticism when it comes to the Brothers. Certainly there is absoluteness to them that might make us uncomfortable. But to me, they are just reminding us of what we value in our lives. Safety, comfort, trust. When we lose those, especially when those around us seem too high to touch, that's when we turn to them.

I don't agree with their methods, but I support the idea they have something that is morally right.
 


LostSoul said:
I believe in the rule of law. So I think they were doing the wrong thing.

There is a reason why we have courts, after all.


But what if the courts are corrupt. What if, according to most liberal political thinkers, organized society IS the whole problem to begin with?
 


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