The "Bubble"

[Tony Vargas]

Our group doesn't have a problem with this. It's one of the things that makes inflicting the prone condition useful. (The other, of course, is setting your allies up with Combat Advantage).

It can be very effective against melee-only monsters, but most PCs tend to have /some/ ranged attack, even if it's not very good, so not /too/ frustrating for them.

 

[FireLance]

I personally see it as a quirk of the system that it is possible to attack an opponent three or more squares away as a standard action, but not one that is two squares away.

What I have done is to allow characters to "Lunge" as a standard action - the character moves (not shifts) one square and makes a melee basic attack. Unlike a charge, since you haven't built up enough momentum, you don't get a +1 bonus to the attack roll.

In any case, I don't think prone really needs to be improved further - it already costs the target a move action to recover on its turn, and it grants combat advantage against melee attacks and takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls until it does.

 

[DracoSuave]

This is -excellent- tactics and I keep boggling my mind as to why people diss melee knock-prone abilities as 'useless' when -this- is -exactly- what you should be doing with them.

Prone = Costs a move action. That is not a minor or trivial cost.

Besides, the counter is often
'Stand up as move
apply minor action of choice
ready attack power for when monster gets in melee range.'

Or use ranged weapon/reach weapon.

Cause you dedicated meleers DO carry ranged or reach weapons, right? Just in case?

Oh you don't? That is sad, as it is an important/necessary part of the defender's arsenal.

 

[borg286]

Keep in mind that by late heroic and on most monsters have reach so knocking them prone and stepping back 1 does nothing to them except make them waste a move action.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Our group has made it such that standing from prone includes a free shift. Proning opponents is still a worthwhile tactic for any number of reasons, you just don't have this weird situation where it's impossible to stand and attack a foe one square away.

Personally I'd probably just remove the minimum charge range restriction.

 

[DracoSuave]

you just don't have this weird situation where it's impossible to stand and attack a foe one square away.

Oh, can't ready an action for when he comes back to you? Cause... I mean... that's perfectly legal already, right. And probably better than a charge

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This is -excellent- tactics and I keep boggling my mind as to why people diss melee knock-prone abilities as 'useless' when -this- is -exactly- what you should be doing with them.

Prone = Costs a move action. That is not a minor or trivial cost.

Besides, the counter is often
'Stand up as move
apply minor action of choice
ready attack power for when monster gets in melee range.'

Or use ranged weapon/reach weapon.

Cause you dedicated meleers DO carry ranged or reach weapons, right? Just in case?

Oh you don't? That is sad, as it is an important/necessary part of the defender's arsenal.

Knocking someone prone was already one of the best action denying abilities in 3E available for melee warriors.

4E removed the trip-follow up attack + opportunity attack cheese, and makes it easier in general to cause action denying conditions. But prone is still very useful. It can be as effective as dazed or immobilizing.

I think there is a reason why there are no knock-prone at-will powers - except from the Player Handbook Miniatures.

 

[Ryujin]

Oh, can't ready an action for when he comes back to you? Cause... I mean... that's perfectly legal already, right. And probably better than a charge

We've been playing that readied actions are lost at the end of the turn based on the wording of the rules on it, which would make standing and readying fairly useless against a single opponent. Are we wrong there?

 

[Rothe_]

I think readied actions only disappear when you start your next turn.
We don't track combat rounds like you do (from first initiative to the last), we do it basically so that 1 full round is from the start of your turn to the start of your next turn. That is how it is intended in my opinion, because otherwise you would not be able to ready actions meaninfully if you are last in the initiative order.

And this "bubble" thing is rules working as intended, IMO. Tactical benefit from clever maneuvers are ok, and they should be a part of the game. It may not be "realistic" but it works within the mechanics of the game to make the prone condition a bit better than it would be otherwise.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Everyone's already made all the points I would've come up with except for a little minor comment. I don't think that tactically this situation will come up very often against the PCs. It will normally only work on the non-defender melee PC who has no reach, ranged, or shift/attack powers. That will pretty much happen never. And, against monsters this tactic is ineffective because you can always attack another PC.

So, spending time trying to fix the Bubble is pretty much a waste of time because it's a non-issue. Even so, FireLance provides a suitable answer though I would probably give you a -1 to attack since you are essentially getting something for nothing. Or, at least restrict to "you can only lunge when no opponents are adjacent."