D&D 5E The Case for a Magic Item Shop?

[Tony Semana]

Spending time talking to a random npc that didn't have a name before the PC walked into the shop and doesn't have any story hooks or any information to move the established story forward is just time consuming. Hand wave these little pointless interactions and move on to the role playing/social scenes that are apart of the ongoing story. Spending an hour shopping takes away time from the dinner party at the mansion and the opera later in the evening, where you are supposed to interact with the npcs that matter. Basically let the little people eat cake.

Personally, I wouldn't count a character's way of addressing their (self-described) debilitating shortcoming as a 'pointless interaction'. So, seems to me, that this has now become the established story, at least for the OP. And therefore again tying back to the thread subject; no, this is not in itself a case for magic shops in the RAW. If the DM wanted to handwave it, they would have. If they haven't yet it's because the player hasn't appropriately voiced their issue OR (more likely) the DM wants them to deal with it as part of the established story.

 

[Paraxis]

A question of style perhaps? But going to the magic Walmart wouldn't fit most of the games I've played in. How do you tell which NPCs matter? Do they wear name badges? And some of the little people give good cake.

It is a question of wanting your players to enjoy the game. You don't need to describe where they get the magic item, it is like downtime, they say they are going shopping for X you tell them to subtract Y amount of gold. Then move on to something that matters, what something that is depends on the story you are telling, they should know which npc's to go talk to from the previous bits of the story, you should never have the players going around town clicking on random people like some video game hoping to find the right conversation. You as a DM guide them to the next important npc.

So pretty much what I said about creatures who never see the light (blindsense) or live in only dim light conditions (darkvision without "normal" vision). As the latter condition does not exist in the game although implied by drow and kobolds' Sunlight Sensitivity we end up in a position where creatures won't rear back from light thye feel is too bright because the rules don't reflect the situation. I think it could be ruled on by the DM on a case by case basis, YMMV.

Sure when the light comes into play in an otherwise dark room creatures can rear back, shield their eyes, turn away briefly, all of that is great fluff and good narrative, it has absolutely zero to do with game mechanics. There is no mechanical penalty for it in the game. So sure be descriptive but once initiative is rolled that fluff doesn't matter one bit.

Sensitive much?

Nope, you just seem to not know what RAW is, and you are bringing in a bunch of DM fiat and narrative stuff that is not in the rules.

 

[Kaychsea]

I'll say it again, a question of style.

I don't like the concept of the ACME Magic Artifact Co dropping off goodies. As this is the main thrust of the thread (although in chunks it has read very much like the Warlock gimping thread) that's where I stand. I, and most of the groups I've played with prefer a more roleplaying approach to problem solving, rather than just being presented with a queue of people to "talk" to. In these forums I've seen that described as blatant railroading.
As to sudden light have no mechanistic role to play, it falls in with a large number of situations that Mearls and Co have more than suggested be decided by individual DMs. Fiat is a strong element, I'd go so far as to say a necessary element, to fulfilling their original claims way back at the start to allow people to play in the style they want from Basic to 4e or even, the gods forfend, to allow 5e to stand as its own beast.
So, yes. At my table a sudden flare of light from dim to bright would give the party an advantage for a round or two assuming they were ready for it, when facing creatures that found glowing fungus a reason for wearing shades. I wouldn't expect that to be the case at everybody else's though.

At the heart of it, this is a roleplaying game with rules, not a ruleplaying game with rolls.

 

[Random Bystander]

Not offended. "Damn" was just for emphasis in the informal adjective manner. I thought someone mentioned dark vision extension was part of the 5E Goggles of Night, but I don't have easy access to the playtest stuff to check.

The thread seems to have acquired an additional two pages overnight. However, I apologize for my assumption.

 

[Elf Witch]

It is not up to the player it is up to the group and that includes the DM.

If a wizards can't cast spells for multiple game sessions why bother showing up?

If the DM makes the gods disappear and the cleric can't do any magic, why show up?

If you are not having fun in the game, why show up?

There are no rules about using your other senses to navigate in the dark, he can't be an effective scout with just hearing, he always has disadvantage in darkness that gimps his ability to hit and prevents sneak attack, this is the core of his character.

Sure challenge your players, throw them into situations where they have to think out of the box or where their go to abilities are useless, but that should be a small number of the situations they find themselves in, not every encounter of every game night for weeks at a time.

I have never met anyone that would volunteer to play goldmoon, or any cleric without their powers, it is hard enough to get people to play clerics when they have all of their abilities.
What is enjoyable to read in a novel is not always enjoyable to play through as a character in a roleplaying game.



Not every time, just when all the toys are taken away and not given back for an extended period of time.

I have played in many games over the years where sometimes your class abilities get nerfed for a couple of sessions. We were tapped in a dead magic zone for two sessions so none of our casters or magic weapon worked including magical healing. We were once trapped in hell and the clerics were cut ff from their gods the only spells they had to access were the ones they had when we went in and third level and below. I have to disagree I have major fun when I have been nerfed because it requires thinking outside the box to accomplish things.

This player is not in this situation at all he can still do sneak attack and other things the only thing he can't do is stealth and scout. It is tough but hardly the end of the world.

 

[Authweight]

I don't think you've established the case for a magic item shop, but you have established the case for the DM offering ways to deal with challenging situations. One way would be for the DM to let you visit a magi-mart. But there are lots of other ways detailed in this thread that the DM in question could have approached the issue.

Of course, none of that really helps you, because this thread isn't your DM. Have you talked to him about this? He may not even realize this is an issue until you bring it up. DMs can easily get caught up in the big picture and not realize someone is feeling useless.

 

[Paraxis]

I'll say it again, a question of style.

I don't like the concept of the ACME Magic Artifact Co dropping off goodies. As this is the main thrust of the thread (although in chunks it has read very much like the Warlock gimping thread) that's where I stand.

I understand people don't like ACME Magic Artifact Co or Spellmart, but you don't have to have those in your world to handwave shopping. The characters still get the items from commissioning wizards, thieves guilds, general stores, alchemists, dwarven smiths, temples, etc... you just don't need to spend time talking about all of that.
Player: We need to sell all the loot and I a would like to purchase Goggle of Night.
DM: You get 900 gp from the gem, art, and other loot. You find a pair of Google of Night for 1,500 gp.
Player: Ok done. (does the math, adds Goggles of Night to his inventory).
Player: Now lets go talk to the forger who is making those invitations to the gala ball, ohh I picked up a nice set of clothes for the party while I was shopping.
DM: Goes on to describe the interaction with the forger who has some other information to give to the party.

Now that is my style and my players enjoy it, I also prefer this when I play because if an entire hour is spent dealing with selling and purchasing items I feel it takes away from the story.

I, and most of the groups I've played with prefer a more roleplaying approach to problem solving, rather than just being presented with a queue of people to "talk" to. In these forums I've seen that described as blatant railroading.

There is a story, running around clicking on every npc in the village seems more like a video game to me than going and talking to just the few that move that story forward. Railroading is shoving that story at the players no matter what, the trick is to make the story you want to tell the most interesting thing going on around the characters so they want to follow the story.

At my table a sudden flare of light from dim to bright would give the party an advantage for a round or two assuming they were ready for it, when facing creatures that found glowing fungus a reason for wearing shades. I wouldn't expect that to be the case at everybody else's though.

They don't wear shades around glowing fungus, they use glowing fungus to light their world like lanterns and candles, darkvision is not a weakness it is an advantage.

At the heart of it, this is a roleplaying game with rules, not a ruleplaying game with rolls.

To me it is a Role Playing Game, the Game part is just as important as the role playing part or you might as well just have a cooperative freeform storytelling night, you don't need books for one of those.

 

[thalmin]

I understand people don't like ACME Magic Artifact Co or Spellmart, but you don't have to have those in your world to handwave shopping. The characters still get the items from commissioning wizards, thieves guilds, general stores, alchemists, dwarven smiths, temples, etc... you just don't need to spend time talking about all of that.
Player: We need to sell all the loot and I a would like to purchase Goggle of Night.
DM: You get 900 gp from the gem, art, and other loot. You find a pair of Google of Night for 1,500 gp.
Player: Ok done. (does the math, adds Goggles of Night to his inventory).
Player: Now lets go talk to the forger who is making those invitations to the gala ball, ohh I picked up a nice set of clothes for the party while I was shopping.
DM: Goes on to describe the interaction with the forger who has some other information to give to the party.

Now that is my style and my players enjoy it, I also prefer this when I play because if an entire hour is spent dealing with selling and purchasing items I feel it takes away from the story.

This is fine for worlds where magic items are relatively plentiful. Where they are more rare, a side quest is in order, if the item is to be available at all.

 

[KarinsDad]

So take 1 level of rogue to get Cunning Action.

2 levels of Rogue (unless he already has one, still, 2 total).

 

[Mishihari Lord]

How is any of that different than just letting the player buy what he wants. Why go through the tediousness of all of that and talking to all the vendors, merchants, priests, thieves guilds and such, when you could just say "Deduct 1500 gp and you acquire Goggle of Night." Roleplaying through all the little interactions with pointless extras is what slows the game down to a crawl, subtract the gold and move on. It is like talking to your waitress about the roasted pheasant and the price of the local ale vs the imported ale, completely pointless to the overall storyline and makes everyone at the table roll their eyes at you.

First, these all fit the genre, unlike a magic Walmart. The only fantasy novels I can recall reading that had magic Walmarts were parodies.

Second, did you see the bit at the end about a mini-adventure? Magic items are supposed to be cool. Requiring time and effort to get them preserves this. Make them something you can buy at the local 7-11 and all the cool evaporate.