The Challenge of Epic-Level Campaigns!

[Falcon]

Every measure has a counter-measure, and the more you act, the more you are known.

Like the Roman Empire. Hello SHARK?

The constraints in epic level play revolve around the notions that you are responsible for your use of power, and that others of your level will be alerted to your use of power, and be better to ascertain how to counter your objectives.

That to me is epic level--able to enact one's will on the world, but knowing that in doing so, one will attract the attention of others similar in might who may not agree with you, and through their knowledge gleaned from your actions, fashion an effective way to counter your abilities and power. All, of course, in the context of their own fear of realizing that one false move could reveal themselve.

Not everyone is the Loki/Coyote and Zeus/Great Spirit Dichotomy.

Think Renaissance Italy, the Shoganates of Japan, the Roman Senate, and the cusp of the Persian, Roman, and Greek Empires at those levels. What a mess, depending on others for intelligence, for fear of exposing oneself too far, full well realizing that you could cause a whole big bunch of problems, if you had to, but with consequences.

That, to me, is epic level. Not the escalation of damage; rather the escalation of complexity and responsibility.

 

[Rugger]

The tone of Epic Level campaigns is going to greatly vary from campaign to campaign...some will just make it into huge Hack-N-Slash style play, and if that is what you enjoy, then go for it! The game is all about playing in a style in which YOU have fun.

But I agree with you, SHARK, that the flavor should change...

Shortly after GenCon 2001, my crew wanted to test out high-level play. I planned to run Monte’s “The Harrowing” in Dungeon Mag #84. I allowed them to go nuts with what they wanted to run for 15th level, as it was only a test. Here’s what I got:

- Halfing Shadowdancer
- Half-Celestial Elvish Cleric
- Half Celestial Halfling Sorcerer
- Centaur Arcane Archer (house ruled)
- Human Wizard
- Human Monk (Mr Whoop-arse)
- Dwarven Psion (or, Mr. Disintegration as we called him)

Even though this was a one-shot, I couldn’t bear the thought of running a game with no backstory...so looking at the menagerie of characters, I came up with an idea. I had been on a huge kick for Pulp action, and had recently finished re-reading Warren Ellis’s amazing Planetary series of comics. Pulp DnD. It worked. And I think it is how I am going to run our usual campaign when it gets to that point.

The PC’s were “The Grey Fist”, a secret force for good in Greyhawk. Heck, if there can be a Circle of Eight, why not allow the PC’s to play a similarly powered organization. The characters were all former retainers of the wizards of the Circle of Eight...secret agents of the agenda’s of their masters.

They had a secret headquarters, north of Blackmoor, an ancient dwarven citadel that had many links to the Underdark, where they themselves had agents on the lookout for trouble. They had a gadgeteer, a gnomish tinkerer who identified the many strange magical artifacts that they found, and crafted new ones for them. (and provided a reason that they all had the perfect Magic Item loadouts for their characters)

[SPOILERS FOR “THE HARROWING” AHEAD]


Through one of their many contacts, Prince Melf Brightflame ( a former retainer of Mordenkainen, and member of the Knights of Luna, an anti-isolationist elven underground) they were told that a high ranking priest who was actually a sympathizer for the Knights of Luna had gone missing...and here was the problem: they need people who could investigate subtly, as he disappeared while going to visit his HUMAN mistress. An internal elven investigation would surely reveal this and ruin his credibility as a supporter of the Knights of Luna. So investigate they did....only to find that the priest had been kidnapped by the daughter of a goddess to be a sacrifice in a vile plot to achieve full godhood! (Cue evil music)

And we had a blast. They action was fast-paced and high powered. Players dropped and were replaced (all members of “The Grey Fist” had Contact Medallions, which would explain how they got new people into the adventure). I don’t even think the players realized how “pulpy” it felt...the good guys were good, and the bad guys were bad. And they smashed evil. The PC’s were a secret organization making changes in the world. And they did it in style.

Who needs to rule a kingdom, when you know that the kingdom already has been taken over by dimension-hopping demonic shapeshifters. And the PC’s are the only one’s who can stop them and prevent mass chaos.


Sorry to hijack your thread a bit, but just wanted to give another example of how Epic Level play could work...can’t wait until my main campaign (currently 12th-13th level, and fresh out of RTToEE) gets a bit higher....

-Rugger
“I lurk!”

(Edited for spelling errors...whoops!)

 

[Tonguez]

As a counter to this the themes you discuss need not be epic

IMC my PCs began by discovering and exploring a new island, recovering the artifact there and sacrificing one of their number to appease the Land. By lvl 5 they were leaders of their own village and helping to expand that, influencing their people, forming allainces with their neighbours (gnomes and giants) and dealing with 2 outsiders. Perhaps it was epic play but it did not require epic levels

 

[mmadsen]

In reading several threads of late that deal with epic level campaigns it occurs to me that epic level campaigns are often little understood, and/or poorly executed.

You just use CR 21+ monsters. Easy. Right? Or lots of lesser monsters. "You knock down the door and see...100 Orcs."

 

[sword-dancer]

For epic roleplay

look at this link

http://www.panix.com/~sos/rpg/yrth1100.html

 

[mmadsen]

For epic roleplay look at this link: http://www.panix.com/~sos/rpg/yrth1100.html

I never thought I'd see the day that someone gave a GURPS link for their epic example.

 

[mmadsen]

Perhaps it was epic play but it did not require epic levels.

Good point, Tonguez. The entire Lord of the Rings might not involve any epic-level play, but it's certainly epic.

 

[evileeyore]

Re: Re: The Challenge of Epic-Level Campaigns!

Or lots of lesser monsters. "You knock down the door and see...100 Orcs."

Dude if 100 orcs are epic... My group averages 11th level and 100 Orcs are no problem. Now 45 Orcs that are all lvl 4+ (20 4th fighters, 20 6 lvl fighters, 2 10th level clerics, 2 10th lvl Mages, and a 10th lvl fighter) is another story...

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

It's a bit of an inside joke--mmadsen is familiar with the kind of Orcs that roam about in my campaign, and how I tend to play them...

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Here's an Epic Challenge for ya: Have your party of Small or Medium-sized humanoid adventurers EAT the Tarrasque.