The Chasme, proof the designers are missing something out at times?

[Silverblade The Ench]

I've been going through the Monster Manual (got deluxe version so it's errated), and other books, and I'm seeing issues, odd and bit off to the side, I'll deal with the Monster Manual ones another day, but, the Chasme in the Manual of the Planes shows a serious flaw in 4th ed monster creation by the designers, I think. Not a terrible game play one, but a serious mistmatch...

The chasme is described as:

Clever, swift and craven, chasmes are insect-liek demons that slake their unending thirst for blood and pain by tormenting the weak.

Their lore also notes they like collecting knowledge.

the problem is in it's stats...
Str 19, Con 18, Dex 24, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 14

Ok, how the hell can that be "clever", eh? lol, 11 int 10 wis, that is only averag-ish smart. Saw a few other such oddities for creatures, where the description and info on the creature, doesn't match the stats.

IMHO, I think the designers have stuck too much to stat limits, the "basic array" as it were of 4th ed, and forgot to alter as need for specific critters.
Could be an oversite, but a few other such citter mis-matches makes me think they are giving stats for their combat 1st (understandable as that's what ye need to start from), but not always matching that to their lore?

If something is a good combatant AND noted for being smart, why would it be wrong to increase their Int and/or Wis beyond the basic stat pool?

Pretty important to make a creature "fit" not just it's combat role, but also it's lore.

 

[RangerWickett]

You can be clever without being full of knowledge about magic, history, and religion. Indeed, I think clever could fall under the Bluff skill.

 

[fuzzlewump]

I won't disagree with making their stats higher, but I will say that clever is a characteristic that does not necessarily mean high intelligence or wisdom. The average human (10 in both stats) has plenty of potential to be clever. I suppose I agree that stat matching could be done better, although your example I see no problem with, but what does it matter either way? Stats are really only important in monster creation, and even then not so much.

As far as immersion, if I play a Dex / Cha rogue, I will play him or her as clever despite dumping intelligence and wisdom. So, if it's a problem with monsters, all players need to be forced to do the same to satisfy the total immersion thing.

 

[the Jester]

"Clever" is not a game-defined term.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I would consider a giant fly with mental prowess of an average human to be quite clever indeed and downright scary to encounter.

 

[Ryujin]

Have you ever tried to trap a raccoon?

 

[Flipguarder]

put simply, attributes do lead to personality/ability, but they don't have to.

 

[Iron Sky]

I totally ignore the attributes of monsters (to the point where I make all stats the same for monsters I make for ease-of-creation). In 4e in general, our group has moved away from your attributes determining your personality to your attributes determining your mechanical effectiveness and the player's creativity determining the character's personality, appearance, etc.

 

[-Avalon-]

Have you ever tried to trap a raccoon?

Yes, the clever raccoon gets caught by the tiny shiny silvery aluminum foil scrap stuck inside the lil hole just big enough for his hand to fit through when unclenched...lol

He grabs and won't let go, so he gets his hand stuck... quite easy to catch a raccoon...

 

[Ryujin]

Yes, the clever raccoon gets caught by the tiny shiny silvery aluminum foil scrap stuck inside the lil hole just big enough for his hand to fit through when unclenched...lol

He grabs and won't let go, so he gets his hand stuck... quite easy to catch a raccoon...

Wanna get the ones out of my attic?