D&D General The child stealing food to survive scenario, for alignment

[Mercurius]

I would suggest the following for Law oriented characters.

LG: Utilizes systems/law to perpetuate good, with goodness trumping law if necessary.

LN: Utilizes systems/law to perpetuate itself - law trumps all. Order must be maintained.

LE: Utilizes (exploits) systems for personal gain, which trumps all.

So in the example you provided, a LG character would likely gently admonish the child and then actively try to help them, perhaps bringing them to a mission or his or her temple for care-taking, maybe giving them room and board in exchange for work.

A LN character would have the child arrested, because law and order are what is important.

A LE would find some way to exploit the situation - perhaps taking the money and turning the child in.

 

[Ace]

Theft in D&D is not inherently evil unless it causes significant harm to someone in the process. Doing what you must do to survive is probably unaligned but baring that neutral.

As for LG guys, removing the hand of a child is inherently cruel and causes disproportionate harm and therefore not a good act.As such, ignoring the law would not cause much moral conflict.

 

[Shiroiken]

What would a character do if they caught a poor street kid stealing food from a merchant in the city? The child is obviously quite poor impoverished and in poor health, so they are likely stealing to survive or to feed their family. The city most certainly has laws that could be harsh for the child now that they are caught, in that it could either be imprisonment or the child loses a hand.

Gonna answer solely based on alignment, which is simply a moral tendency.

• LG - give the urchin a private reprimand (the law's too cruel), then pay for the food
• NG - give the urchin a warning, then give them some money
• CG - give the urchin some tips on how to not get caught in the first place, since theft is so dangerous, then give them some money
• LN - turn the urchin over to the authorities, but make a case for the urchin; perhaps offering to pay the cost of the food and a small fine
• N - pay no attention, as it's none of your business
• CN - smile and point out to the merchant that he's been robbed... describing someone completely different than the urchin
• LE - turn the urchin over to the authorities, or simply mete out the punishment yourself right there
• NE - blackmail the urchin to give you half, plus more each week unless they want the authorities to find out
• CE - kill the urchin and eat the stolen food; laugh mechanically

What would your character do in this situation now that they caught this little thief?

My current character is a LG far traveling gold dwarf from the Deephome. He has a great distaste for human society to begin with (playing Avernus, and spend every day in Baulder's Gate getting mugged), so he'd smile and walk away...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not really. I mean, it isn't like LG is this intense struggle for every single action. Sometimes, there's solutions that are strongly both, but when there isn't, sometimes you lean a little more to Law, sometimes a little more to Good, and it all comes out in the wash.

But if you want to be both, the answer is simple - the child is under the age of majority? They are not fully responsible for legal behavior. Done. Not really hard.

It's also a classic backstory for a paladin or cleric character!

 

[Azzy]

I brought this up in the other thread because I feel it a better thing to debate about alignment, especially the LG alignment than Orc babies.

What would a character do if they caught a poor street kid stealing food from a merchant in the city? The child is obviously quite poor impoverished and in poor health, so they are likely stealing to survive or to feed their family. The city most certainly has laws that could be harsh for the child now that they are caught, in that it could either be imprisonment or the child loses a hand. What would your character do in this situation now that they caught this little thief?

Well, from the perspective of a LG character I played, first I would stop the child from stealing, give them a a morality less on stealing and accompany the child back to the vendor he stole from and have them apologize (while I'd pay the vendor for his goods). I's also buy some more food and help bring it to the child's family. After that I would find out if there is any church or institution that helps the poor and downtrodden, and let the family know about. I would hope that my actions would provide a good example for the child and hope that they wouldn't have to go to such lengths again. In the long term, I also work to change the city or nation so to end poverty and the threats that face the impoverished through influencing policy, swaying public opinion on the issue, and trying to convince the powers that be that rectifying the issue is a benefit to them, the city/nation, and citizenry at large.

 

[Raith5]

I would not even think about getting involved in such a petty matter. Those undead and demons are not going to slay themselves.

 

[Sadras]

Funny thing is, this came up in a game once. My LG PC (leaning LN) saw a kid stealing something so he stopped him using a non-lethal force by knocking him down.

Everybody at the table was aghast. The baker was out that loaf of bread and would suffer because of the loss. Maybe it wouldn't bankrupt the baker, but the baker worked hard to earn money for his family, the kid didn't.

I explained that if the kid was hungry I'd throw in a few gold for an apprenticeship so he could earn his keep, but theft is wrong. If the kid got away with stealing a loaf of bread now, the lesson he learns is that he can get away with theft. In a couple of years it wouldn't be the loaf of bread, it would be the baker's earnings for the week.

The way I viewed it my PC saw a crime and stopped it using appropriate, non-lethal, means. People work hard for a living and taking something you didn't earn was wrong.

Fantastic roleplaying moment!

 

[DammitVictor]

Kid's just trying to feed his family. What Good is the Law, when it demands that you starve?

On the other hand, the merchant's just trying to feed his family, too-- I can offer to pay for what the kid stole, this time, but how many times has the kid gotten away with it when I wasn't there to stop him? The merchant would be within his rights to refuse my generosity, in the hopes that harsh punishment will protect his livelihood.

I am deeply, deeply Chaotic; I don't give a damn what the law says about thieves and merchants trying to feed their families and protect their interests. I've got some Good tendencies... I'm going to make the merchant an honest offer for the thief's freedom and their upkeep. But I've got some Evil tendencies, too, and it's in the merchant's best interests to recognize that my offers are only going to keep getting better until they get a whole lot worse.

Chaos isn't about being immune to the consequences of one's choices-- you're thinking of Power, and if you think Chaotics are irresponsible, you need to pay more attention to the favor the Law shows the Powerful. Chaos is recognizing that Only You are responsible for the consequences of Your Choices, so you don't get to blame the Law for doing what you knew the Law was going to do when you made your choices.

 

[DND_Reborn]

What alignment would the kid be? Any really. Even if you made it an older child, like a teen, who does know the difference (usually) between right and wrong. Take the most extreme case of LG:

Alignment is not absolute in that (most) creatures follow it to the letter all the time. We had a talk about this in our session yesterday when we encountered a NPC, were using Zone of Truth, and the topic was lying. Good people lie. Lawful people lie. They might feel there is need or reason, or they might be afraid of consequences, etc., and they might feel bad about doing it--but they do it.

In a similar fashion, such a hungry child/person might steal to survive. Maybe they are keeping tracking and when they are older will give some money to the people they stole from? Maybe the internal struggle will make them return the vendor and apologize for stealing, asking to work for free to repay the debt? Etc.

Now, if the child/teen/person feels no regret or anything negative about the theft, they are probably not good nor lawful.

That's my two cents anyway. Now I'll bow out of this one, too.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Aladdin stealing food in a Disney movie?