The Chump is Stumped out!

Voadam said:
A follow up question then, how about a LG church with paladins who can not do evil actions or lose their paladinhood?

And yes, I was thinking of RPG witch hunts that target, say, all arcane spellcasters or all nonfollowers of the good god, not just evil spellcasters who made pacts with fiends.

Unfortunatly this is more of a DnD alignment question. How do you view LG?

I'd put the paladins out of the picture when performing these witch hunts (again it seems to me that your implying those evil arcane spellcasters don't deserve the fiery fate that the great glorious *and rightous* god had decreed upon them) and have them out fighting more obvious evils.

I think the idea would work better as a LN church than a LG church, unless your cosmology supports the idea that if one is not "good" one is therefore "evil".

**If two people think you've stumped me and say so in there post, you'll get a copy of Party of One: Leda**

joe b.
 

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I've always wondered about town guards in rpgs, how many were there in a medieval city, and expanding to medieval fantasy, what magic could they reasbnably be expected to draw upon?
 


lokiqc said:
In average, how long would a human expect to live taking in cosideration magical healing and monsters rampaging through the area?

heh.... :)

More important than magical healing however is magically created food and water.

Not create food and water, but control weather and plant growth. These two spells will created a more stable and more productive environment in a magical medieval period and that will lead to slightly higher population densities and to reduced numbers of famines.

Famines were the leading cause of death because

1. you have no food, you die.
2. you have little food, your immune system goes down, you catch a cold, you die.
3. you have little food, then you have enough food, you have little food, then you have enough food, your immune system goes down, you catch a cold, you die.

Magical healing would be most useful for house side accidents (amazing the number of children that died because they fell into the fire place during the medieval period) like fireplace incidents, cooking accidents, and roofing accidents.

I wouldn't view the monsters as that much of a threat over all since the majority of people live well within the "safe" areas of a kingdom. And they're really just there for the PC to kill... the monsters that is, not the peasants.. :) unless your

TROGDOR!!!!!

ok... got carried away there...

Average life expectancies are always iffy. I'd bump them up a little from the average medieval life span. This would vary wildly depending on what source you use.

generally the birth incidence was 30-35 per thousand while the mortality rate was less than that. In cities, the mortality rate was much higher than birth rate and cities depend upon a constant influx of new people to grow.

from Cipolla, Before the industrial revolution, european society and economy, 1000-1700

"A woman who managed to reach the end of her fertile period, let us say an age of 45, had normally witnessed the deaths of both her parents, of the majority of her brothers and sisters, of more than half of her children, and often she was a widow. Death was a familiar theme. And it was a grim business."

So there ya go! Given magic i'd bump up the average a bit, but not by a lot, since warfare is even more deadly.

joe b.
 

Voadam said:
Okay, more magic impact on feudalism.

Where do wizards fit into a medieval structure, are they the noble estate, are they servants of the noble estate? Can they be separate ala ars magica? Craftsmen similar to a smith guild? Peasant estate as the wierd old hermit in the woods (but they need a lot of money for their craft so I don't think so).

How does the possibility of anybody being sorcerers disrupt the treatment and role of peasants?

Wizards would have status due their spellcasting abilities, but they would only find a place (outside the typical city) through land ownership and hence as part of the gentry/nobility.

If you were a peasant who had the ability, a sympatheic lord could arrange for you to leave his manor (for arcane apprenticeship) under agreement for you to come back and serve him for a number of years as payment.

Spon casters will have it harder. Sure you may be able to cast simple spells. You use magic against the rules of the land and you'll suffer just the same. There will be ways of enforcing magic propriaty.


For the city.... From MMS:WE
Wizards’ Guilds
No magical medieval city is complete without a wizards’ guild. Like other members of society, wizards need a community and group insurance. To determine a viable wizards’ guild, one needs to remember why people form them: what benefits they offer, what financial and social payments its members pay for the privilege of membership, and the guild’s role as regulator in the city. These ideas are integral to maintaining medieval thought among magical times. The unique magical ability of wizards also adds complication in creating a guild structure.

The guild is for camaraderie, insurance, and social distinction according to one’s profession or craft. A wizards’ guild offers many benefits for its members, both social and arcane-oriented. If a wizard dies an untimely death, then the guild insures proper burial and a stipend for the widow and children left behind. For members wealthy enough to afford coming back, the guild can ensure the member’s return. In larger cities with wealthy guilds, the guild can grant access to research facilities, laboratories, special materials, and spell components. Where else can a wizard safely find the snake off a medusa’s head, even if he has to pay the outrageous guild price? Other possibilities are shared magical learning, spell trading, and lend/lease magic items. Holiday feasts and theater productions must be a riot at the guildhall, and the types of songs wizards sing after pitchers of ale are legendary. Wizards also enjoy the settled ease of knowing someone understands them when they say over cards, “Yes, I tried to reverse the metamagic field by polarizing the phlogiston; unfortunately, upon opening the box, I found the cat dead.“

The guild acts as a police force for its craft, both on guild members and on outsiders within the guild’s territory. If there is a wizards’ guild in a city, being a member of the guild is not a luxury; it is a prerequisite. As with other professional and craft guilds, membership is compulsory to practice wizardry in the city, which includes casting spells for others, selling wizardly services, and making magic items for sale. Unauthorized practitioners risk retribution by the guild if word leaks out. This does not mean that it does not happen; it just means that guilds have a socially and legally supported right to pursue such transgressors.

The guild also creates its regulations and bylaws. Any number of restrictions may be a part of a wizards’ guild. Though the particular laws of any given wizards’ guilds are campaign specific, here are a few ideas. Wizards’ guilds limit who can make what magical items. They restrict what level of spells a wizard can cast for hire, depending on level or status in the guild. They regulate the prices at which wizards sell magic items, potions, scrolls, or spells they cast from memory. They determine who can create new spells and what new spells are created. They determine who becomes a wizard, through controlling membership and taking on apprentices. They even create codes of conduct for foreign wizards who enter the city. They create specializations within the guild, like battle wizards, caravan wizards, research wizards, and production wizards.

However, with guild membership comes guild obligation. Service, magic items, scrolls, potions, research, spells, unique components, or plain coin cover membership fees and other payments. The combination of payments depends on the particular guild. The guild itself has feudal obligations it must fulfill. The amount of comparative power the guild holds, the lord or city council that gives the guild a charter, and the arrangements made with other groups determine the feudal obligations a wizards’ guild owes to other groups and power centers in the city.

It is important to remember that despite the camaraderie and rules for self-policing, wizards’ guilds have just as much internecine fighting, backstabbing, individual power grabs, systematic rule-breaking, and dirty play as any other magical medieval guild. Although lords may grant a city the right to form a wizard’s guild, they will never relinquish control over their rights of magical taxation and service, unless physically forced otherwise.

Wizards’ guilds are potentially one of the most powerful groups in a city. Such organizations have the magical power, and most likely the wealth, to compete against other guilds and power centers for attention and influence. Wizards provide magic that improves crime solving, intelligence gathering, and diplomacy. Wizards’ guilds are full of learned men and their comprehensive libraries, facilities held in high esteem as places of learning and prominent architecture. A city’s wizards’ guild is immensely useful in places where military concerns are strong, or in times of war.

In smaller communities, it is possible to have an arcane guild, opening the guild concept to sorcerers and bards, but such an organization is unlikely where enough learned wizards gather and look down upon their unlearned and undisciplined arcane counterparts.


Spontaneous Casters.... from MMS:WE
Spellcasters in the City
Spellcasting and crafting magic items are professions loosely comparable to advocates and architects in a historical medieval society. They are people whose commodity is specialized knowledge. Not everyone can afford them, but those who can pay handsomely for their services.

The application of magic in the city depends greatly upon the guilds, associations, and politics of the city. In places with a strong wizards’ guild, other arcane spellcasters have a hard time practicing or selling their magic. Some cities have rival wizards’ guilds with differing alignments. Such an environment might lead to wizard duals, political conflict, and conversely, a tendency toward divine spellcasters. In cities with strong patron gods, clerics not aligned with the leading deity have problems performing social programs that overlap with the church of the patron god. Perhaps the church of the patron god does not allow other religions to heal people, or to break curses and enchantments. The cityscape looks much different with multiple guilds, churches, and associations of spellcasters, no one strong enough to have an effective monopoly on magic in the city.

Spontaneous Casters
Besides organizations of wizards and clerics, spontaneous casters can also form guilds or alliances. Bards sometimes form bardic colleges, offering training and sharing lore. These associations do not have to be exclusively for spellcasting bards, but also for non-magical performers and entertainers.

Sorcerers may also form groups, though not as organized as their arcane brethren. Neutrally structured sorcerers have an easier time collecting dues, holding meetings, and regulating sorcerers’ activities than their chaotic associates. Generally speaking, spontaneous casters usually work outside the magic-based guild system.

Magic and Craft
It is more likely for spontaneous casters to have other professions, finding a social niche through membership in professional or craft guilds. This may also be true of wizards and clerics who wish to remain outside of guilds designated for spellcasters. Rather than perform magical services and make magic items, they use their magical abilities toward furthering their craft and trade. Strong arcane guilds or churches may attempt to prohibit independent spellcasting in the city. Most wizards’ guilds and patron god churches do not curb independent or spontaneous spellcasters as long as they do not get too powerful, encroach or hinder on the guild’s/church’s activities, or devalue the selling price of magic for the guild or church by creating alternate sources of magic. Independent spellcasters and spellcasters with other professions are more likely in places with weak or no wizards’ guilds or churches of patron gods. Spellcasters belonging to craft and merchant guilds may even sell their magic to other guild members for extra money, something that is usually prohibited by the presence of wizards’ guilds or churches of strong patron gods.


joe b.
 

Voadam said:
I've always wondered about town guards in rpgs, how many were there in a medieval city, and expanding to medieval fantasy, what magic could they reasbnably be expected to draw upon?

The town guard is more typical of fantasy than reality until you get to the larger cities.

Small medieval cities and towns were arranged in wards (if big enough for mulitple sections), each ward had it own group of people who represented it (ie taxation). They were usually members of guilds. They also arranged for the residents of each area to self patrol their area.

ie. bob watched on wednesday the 14, harry on the 15th etc... there were no "guards" per se.

The residents were also responsible when it came to justice. If a crime was commited in their area (like theft) and they couldn't find the criminall in a certain time period the entire ward would be fined. Medieval justice--- if you cant find the guilty, make them all pay and you got the guilty one. :)

Now in bigger cities there are guards (more of the private type than the civic type) both were often hired mercenaries. As to magic and the guard, the guard would be poorly equipted in comparison to a PC, but the guard force would have enough recourse (ie. through the city council, merchant guild or lord) to use magic to find magic using criminals). I'd also have a small elite part of the guard funtion as a milita type, ready to defend against a blitzkreig type attack against the city itself from outside forces.

private guards 1 in 50, civic guards 1 in 100. good useable magical medieval numbers.

joe b.
 


OK Joe, you can rule this one out of order as it is outside of the cultural/geographic scope of what you're covering. (I think I may have some responsibility for MMS statement of scope.) But just in case you know:

1. In Bohemia, Lithuania and Moravia, how were political hierarchy and land title different from German, Italian and Frankish areas of the same period? What differences/similarities can be seen between the manor and the grod or veche?

And from a systems perspective:

2. Which of your theological models (e.g. Patron God) best expressed medieval Lithuanian paganism?
 

Voadam said:
This is fun!

Yes, i'm having fun. Though running low on soy milk....

Remember guys, if any of you think i didn't answer someone's question properly pipe up about it. espcially on the posts where if two of you think i didn't the poster gets a copy of Party of One: Leda.

thanks,

joe b.
 

OK so increased food supplies lead to greater concentrations of populations and bigger cities. What is the effect of this upon diseases given the greater concentrations amid what might be poor living conditions.
 

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