The corpse of Asokar?

[Usurper]

Looks like I'm going to send them to the Astral then (no need to stopover in Sigil in that case, which will speed things along). I was under the impression the mazes were made from parts of the city itself rather than being on the ethereal, or I wouldn't have even suggested it. Figured the site of Aoskar's death would have traces of godsblood, and that are could be part of a maze. Thanks for setting me straight.

Think I'll take a page from Sejs and send them inside Aoskar's corpse looking for godsblood at his heart. It gets me a good dungeon crawl, and it's ungodly cool. Er, godly cool even.

Hardhead, you wrote me a book there, and I'm much obliged. I didn't know Fell was that dabus. And, speculation or no, I might just run with the two headed Aoskar idea. Gives me more rooms in the corpse dungeon at least.

posted by Alzrius
the bit with a dead god in Sigil at the end of Dead Gods is an anomoly

Haven't read Dead Gods, but you've piqued my curiosity. I wouldn't mind a spoiler.

 

[Hardhead]

Well, I *did* mention it had speculation.

How did Aoskar get in? It wasn't mentioned specifically anywhere, but it's almost blindingly obvious. He was the god of portals, after all!

If he did have two heads, as seems likely, he was almost certainly dualistic in some way. Gods form reflects their personality, and my further extrapilations make pretty good sense, I think.

The Bois Verdurous and the Signer plans are real, as first mentioned in the Factol's Manifesto. The rumors about Fell were in Uncaged.

The Lady couldn't detect Aoskar, or she would have destroyed him sooner. The Focrux is the only known method of avoiding her detection.

As for Fell's role in revealing Aoskar, it's speculation, but the fact is that the Lady didn't destroy Aoskar until after Fell defected. It's certainly not a coincidence.

The thing about the Gatecrasher, I completly made up. But that's why I said "planar sages think," to show it was speculation. I also made up the fact that their abilities don't work in Sigil, but it'd ruin the setting if they did, so I assume they don't. And they do have an ability only otherwise associated with Aoskar's Blood. An intriguing possibility.

So, yeah, there was a good bit of speculation, but it was informed speculation, and it gave him lots of info others hadn't, so hey. Besides, speculation is half the fun of Planescape. Maybe even as much as three quarters.

 

[Hardhead]

Figured the site of Aoskar's death would have traces of godsblood, and that are could be part of a maze. Thanks for setting me straight.

It might. If it did, it'd be somewhere around the Shattered Temple. I still like the idea of the Bois Verdurous having some in it.

At the very least, it's likely they would find the portal to his corpse that they need somewhere in the Temple. I'm sure the Athar keep it secret and safe, though. I would definitly try to get them into the Temple at some point. Just to hammer home the idea that this used to be a really powerful god, but now his main place of worship lies in ruins.

But, a dungeon crawl through a gods' corpse is very cool, as well. Perhaps you could integrate the Signer plot to revive him? (As I mentioned in my last post, this was mentioned first in the Factol's Manifesto, one of the greatest PS products ever written). Imagine the PCs' consternation when, on the eve of getting the blood, the god begins to come back to life! Could definitly pose some problems, I think. Depending how you want to run it, it could give a definite "race against the clock," feeling as they tried to get the blood before he awoke, or it could be a mysterey for them to solve. Why is he returning to life? They then have to somehow stop the Signers before they can get the blood.

Or maybe both. They have to figure how why he's coming back to life before he fully wakes up. I like that, now that I think about it.

 

[Alzrius]

Haven't read Dead Gods, but you've piqued my curiosity. I wouldn't mind a spoiler.

Heh, okay then, as you like...just for everyone else here though...

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Okay, that seems like enough space. Anyway, the adventure Dead Gods is actually two adventures, the primary one Out of the Darkness is a huge mega-adventure to stop an undead god, but that's not what I mentioned before. The second, shorter adventure Into the Light is about how pieces of a dead god of Rain and Clouds were mined from his corpse on the Astral Plane and somehow brought into Sigil as stones. For some reason, the Lady's ban on gods, which should have worked here, allowed the pieces inside the city. There, they began to cause trouble as people who disturbed them became physically trapped in the dead god's memories. The PCs must enter and interact with the dead god's memories, setting him at peace, to free the trapped people and send the stony pieces of his god-corpse back to the Astral.

As a side note, I just want to express that Monte Cook writes in the beginning of Dead Gods about how to link Out of the Darkness and Into the Light together, interspersing them with each other, for a truly dynamic, incredible mega-adventure.

 

[Hardhead]

OK, one more thing. You've got a player that owns all the books, so he's probably a big fan and everything. It'd probably make him happy if you worked it all in somehow, because us fanboys are like that. Show off your Planescape knowledge!

The Shattered Temple should be involved (already gave a couple suggestions how). Fell should be involved too. Maybe he hires the PCs? Maybe he's working against them behind the scenes because he doesn't want the corpse destroyed? The Signers should be involved. Already gave my advice there too (and Fell is involved with them), though if you don't want to start him possibly coming back to life, they could be sending an expeditionary force the PCs meet, or they could be looking for Godsblood too, because they need it to bring him back.

I still like the idea of Aoskar begining to wake up while the PCs are inside.

 

[Alzrius]

Just wanted to mention as an aside, there have been several instances of deities breaking the Lady's ban on gods. For your reference, I've listed them here.

Aoskar somehow got in, most likely something to do with his aspect as god of portals. The Lady of Pain killed him for this.

Several mortals actually ascended from mortality to demi-godhood while inside the city. This is dealt with in the adventure Harbinger House. The Lady doesn't sense it immediately due to a unique thing called the Fulcrux, which is something that does the impossible: blocks the Lady's senses in her own city. Once she finds out that there are gods in her city, she channels horrendous agony at them, forcing them to leave, and thus be unable to return.

As mentioned, in Dead Gods, pieces of a dead god's corpse somehow get around the ban and get into the city.

In the novel Finder's Bane, a minor god, Finder Wyvernspur, puts his divine essence into an artifact (essentially making himself mortal) and then enters the city (with the artifact in possession of a priest of his). He enters and leaves without incident, but mentions that he has a growing feeling of dread the entire time, and that "the city wants him gone."

Vecna forces his way into Sigil in the apocalypse adventure Die Vecna Die, using a combination of his own fluctuating godhood, the knowledge of the Serpent, and the unique planar properties of Ravenloft, to bypass some of the wards on gods and smash through others.

I won't mention any of the Planescape novels, since they were all horribly non-canon (except the novelization of Torment, which didn't break any setting rules, but no gods enter the city in that book).

 

[Alzrius]

Show off your Planescape knowledge!

To that end, you should probably use all the NPCs connected to this as they're detailed in Uncaged:Faces of Sigil. There are several, such as a creature (I forget what its called) that the Way of the One is planning on using as their channel to re-empower Aoskar, and that Ghautiere (sp?) that would certainly oppose that, along with the Athar, etc. The book properly charts out the web of inter-personal relationships here.

 

[Hardhead]

Several mortals actually ascended from mortality to demi-godhood while inside the city. This is dealt with in the adventure Harbinger House. The Lady doesn't sense it immediately due to a unique thing called the Fulcrux, which is something that does the impossible: blocks the Lady's senses in her own city. Once she finds out that there are gods in her city, she channels horrendous agony at them, forcing them to leave, and thus be unable to return.

This is probably because the Lady keeps gods out, but can't just shunt them out the moment a mortal becomes a god. It doesn't work like that, or something. She also probably doesn't have the power to just destroy gods all willy-nilly. She did that to Aoskar, but that was probably because he was connected to portals though his portfolio, but she was the real master in Sigil. If she could kill a god whenever she wanted, she really wouldn't need to have a ban on them.

As mentioned, in Dead Gods, pieces of a dead god's corpse somehow get around the ban and get into the city.

I don't really think this counts. It's notable because it helps define the line between what is and isn't allowed, but I don't think the ban "failed"in this case, or the corpse got around the ban in any way. More likely, the ban just doesn't apply to pieces of a dead god.

In the novel Finder's Bane, a minor god, Finder Wyvernspur, puts his divine essence into an artifact (essentially making himself mortal) and then enters the city (with the artifact in possession of a priest of his). He enters and leaves without incident, but mentions that he has a growing feeling of dread the entire time, and that "the city wants him gone."

Huh. I didn't know that. I'll have to check that book out.

Vecna forces his way into Sigil in the apocalypse adventure Die Vecna Die, using a combination of his own fluctuating godhood, the knowledge of the Serpent, and the unique planar properties of Ravenloft, to bypass some of the wards on gods and smash through others.

OTOH, Die Vecna Die is best taken with a huge grain of salt. Most Planescape fans hate it, and consider it apocrypha.

I won't mention any of the Planescape novels, since they were all horribly non-canon.

I shudder just thinking about them.


EDIT:

To that end, you should probably use all the NPCs connected to this as they're detailed in Uncaged:Faces of Sigil. There are several, such as a creature (I forget what its called) that the Way of the One is planning on using as their channel to re-empower Aoskar, and that Ghautiere (sp?) that would certainly oppose that, along with the Athar, etc. The book properly charts out the web of inter-personal relationships here.

That would be the linqua, Omott.

 

[Alzrius]

This is probably because the Lady keeps gods out, but can't just shunt them out the moment a mortal becomes a god. It doesn't work like that, or something. She also probably doesn't have the power to just destroy gods all willy-nilly. She did that to Aoskar, but that was probably because he was connected to portals though his portfolio, but she was the real master in Sigil. If she could kill a god whenever she wanted, she really wouldn't need to have a ban on them.

Not necessarily. In Die Vecna Die (yes I know most fans hated it, I loved it), it mentions that the Lady could take "her true, respledent form" to "do battle" with Vecna, but she chooses not to, since it would bring down all of creation. Maybe she did directly do battle with Aoskar, though I doubt she went all out, since that would have destabilized the entire multiverse. She just channels agony to other gods to make them leave, but she could do much worse. She would have to, since Vecna was a greater god at the time he was in there, and he was able to totally counter her agony ability, though it took much of his power to do so.

I don't really think this counts. It's notable because it helps define the line between what is and isn't allowed, but I don't think the ban "failed"in this case, or the corpse got around the ban in any way. More likely, the ban just doesn't apply to pieces of a dead god.

Again, I disagree. Finder's Bane addresses this to some degree. A Banelich that has a minor aspect of Bane's essence declares that it will enter Sigil. Finder just laughs and tells it that the ban on gods will bar it too, since it has part of Bane's essence. Any aspect of gods are barred from Sigil, Id say that even applies to minor but direct parts of gods (such as those undead almost-gods from the ELH). Also, the end of Into the Light itself says that the people wonder what's going on since the ban should have kept those pieces out. That pretty much says that the ban does indeed apply there.

OTOH, Die Vecna Die is best taken with a huge grain of salt. Most Planescape fans hate it, and consider it apocrypha.

I can understand that, but you have to take the bad with the good. It's out there, its never been declared non-canon by anyone, and I personally think it fits great (especially since it was designed to "destroy" 2E and bring in 3E, which it does great).

I shudder just thinking about them.

Me too, brrrr, but as I edited my above post to mention, the Torment novel was good, and in keeping with the rules of the setting.

 

[Hardhead]

Not necessarily. In Die Vecna Die (yes I know most fans hated it, I loved it), it mentions that the Lady could take "her true, respledent form" to "do battle" with Vecna, but she chooses not to, since it would bring down all of creation. Maybe she did directly do battle with Aoskar, though I doubt she went all out, since that would have destabilized the entire multiverse. She just channels agony to other gods to make them leave, but she could do much worse. She would have to, since Vecna was a greater god at the time he was in there, and he was able to totally counter her agony ability, though it took much of his power to do so.

I hate Die Vecna Die. I just absolutely hate this idea.

Again, I disagree. Finder's Bane addresses this to some degree. A Banelich that has a minor aspect of Bane's essence declares that it will enter Sigil. Finder just laughs and tells it that the ban on gods will bar it too, since it has part of Bane's essence. Any aspect of gods are barred from Sigil, Id say that even applies to minor but direct parts of gods (such as those undead almost-gods from the ELH). Also, the end of Into the Light itself says that the people wonder what's going on since the ban should have kept those pieces out. That pretty much says that the ban does indeed apply there.

Then why are proxies - creatures infused with their gods essences and made their special servants - allowed in? Why was Sougard Lawshredder able to enter and leave at will, despite having a "spark of divinity?" It would seem to me that any consternation that Sigil's populace felt about the pieces of dead gods in their city was the result of them not understanding the ban. As for the Banelich, well, that's much trickier, but it was in an FR novel, right? So it would seem to me that the author screwed up. Besides, no D&D campaign ever has been totally self-consistent. So it's probably a bit of that, too.

I can understand that, but you have to take the bad with the good. It's out there, its never been declared non-canon by anyone, and I personally think it fits great (especially since it was designed to "destroy" 2E and bring in 3E, which it does great).

Hmmm. Actually, I'm on the team doing the official Planescape conversion to 3e. Maybe I can work something out.