The corpse of Asokar?

Hardhead said:
Then why are proxies - creatures infused with their gods essences and made their special servants - allowed in? Why was Sougard Lawshredder able to enter and leave at will, despite having a "spark of divinity?" It would seem to me that any consternation that Sigil's populace felt about the pieces of dead gods in their city was the result of them not understanding the ban. As for the Banelich, well, that's much trickier, but it was in an FR novel, right? So it would seem to me that the author screwed up. ;) Besides, no D&D campaign ever has been totally self-consistent. So it's probably a bit of that, too. :)

Hmm, well, the lack of consistency bit I can agree with, since that tends to rear its head a bit in Planescape (in that same book, Finder said that undead at the base of the Spire become inanimate, which does not happen). Proxies however aren't gods themselves, neither are guys like Sougard. But a dead god is still part of the god itself. I think the ban would apply.

Hmmm. Actually, I'm on the team doing the official Planescape conversion to 3e. Maybe I can work something out. ;)

There is a team doing an official conversion?? I suspected but I wasn't sure since I couldn't navigate through the official website (which I don't like at all).
 

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Proxies however aren't gods themselves, neither are guys like Sougard. But a dead god is still part of the god itself. I think the ban would apply.
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But neither is a Banelich. Same principle for all of three cases, I think.


There is a team doing an official conversion?? I suspected but I wasn't sure since I couldn't navigate through the official website (which I don't like at all).

Yeah. We're keeping it somewhat quiet, since Athas.org had so much trouble when they released a bunch of stuff early. It's not Top Secret or anything, but it's not being released far and wide either. Plus, it's only just getting going again after a bit of a hiatus.
 

Hardhead said:
But neither is a Banelich. Same principle for all of three cases, I think.

That would be true if this was an ordinary banelich. But it wasn't. The slightly older Forgotten Realms source material says that when Bane died, his direct essence was spread among two dozen baneliches or so. The one in the novel Finder's Bane was one such banelich. It was an exceptional case, but it did have the essence of a god in it, enough to make it, on a very small scale, Bane himself (hence why it could grant clerical spells to itself and its priestess, and why it could not resurrect Bane when it had the chance).

Yeah. We're keeping it somewhat quiet, since Athas.org had so much trouble when they released a bunch of stuff early. It's not Top Secret or anything, but it's not being released far and wide either. Plus, it's only just getting going again after a bit of a hiatus.

Athas.org had trouble? I don't recall that. As far as I knew, they've been doing great...slow but great, and the two new products they just released seem top-notch. I can't wait until their done play-testing their new rules and just release the 3E campaign setting. I'm quite interested in hearing what's going on with Planescape 3E, since there are a lot of minor points I'd like to debate. ;)
 
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Athas.org had trouble? I don't recall that. As far as I knew, they've been doing great...slow but great,

Oh, they have been doing great. I like their stuff. I just meant the massive amount of arguing that's gone on with the fans about stuff they released early. They'd release info, and then they'd have it all picked apart down to the tiniest detail, and each small point was argued to the death. I think that's had a lot to do with the speed of their releases. Campaign design by massive comitte is a slow process. :)

Not that I'm saying anything bad about them. We don't even have anything out yet at all, so we're not really in a position to do much stone tossing. ;) Like I said, I like their stuff so far.


I'm quite interested in hearing what's going on with Planescape 3E, since there are a lot of minor points I'd like to debate.

There's a good bit of info here, though the older posts aren't entirly accurate any more. I've been thinking about compiling a FAQ or something pretty soon.
 
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Finder could have very well been lying. Perhaps the banelich COULD enter Sigil, but Finder clearly didn't want him to. What better way to keep him out than to play on the banelich's own thought that he was a god? He could have also lied about the Spire's effect on undead, though my personal thought was that he was just guessing. Certainly HE wouldn't want to get too close to the Spire either!

I doubt Jeff Grubb would get TOO many things wrong in Finder's Bane, given he had major parts in writing both Manuals of the Planes! If he does get something wrong, it would be something very subtle like something in Planescape that contradicts the Manual of the Planes. He's not without error, of course, but I doubt anyone's done a Realms/Spelljammer/Planescape (toss in Dragonlance in the sequel, complete with kender) crossover that was more true to the settings!

In fact, Iyactu Xvim's defeats in the sequel probably figured heavily in his decision to give up his own identity and assume the mantle of Bane (which is what I believe happened). I'd say Finder is in real trouble with Bane as a personal enemy, but my impression is that Bane is not prejudiced. He hates everybody!
 

Squire James said:
Finder could have very well been lying. Perhaps the banelich COULD enter Sigil, but Finder clearly didn't want him to. What better way to keep him out than to play on the banelich's own thought that he was a god? He could have also lied about the Spire's effect on undead, though my personal thought was that he was just guessing. Certainly HE wouldn't want to get too close to the Spire either!

Saying he is lying does bring his comment about undead going inanimate at the base of the Spire back into canonity. However, he then says "everything I just told him is common knowledge out here on the planes." which would suggest that he doesn't need to lie, the truth being much more fun.

You bring up some good points, but getting into a debate over this is moot. There is, simply put, no evidence one way or the other on whether or not Finder is lying. Nothing suggests he is, so I interpreted it to mean that he wasn't. When we start second-guessing the character's motivations with no direct (or even circumstantial) evidence to do so, we've gotten away from what's really there.

I doubt Jeff Grubb would get TOO many things wrong in Finder's Bane, given he had major parts in writing both Manuals of the Planes! If he does get something wrong, it would be something very subtle like something in Planescape that contradicts the Manual of the Planes. He's not without error, of course, but I doubt anyone's done a Realms/Spelljammer/Planescape (toss in Dragonlance in the sequel, complete with kender) crossover that was more true to the settings!

No arguement here. Those books were incredibly done. There were errors though, which just goes to show that anyone can get a few things wrong. For example: the bit about Finder saying undead go inanimate at the Spire, how Paladine appeared inside the portal to Sigil to meet Emilo, how just because the banelich was undead it couldn't resurrect Bane (though the secondary reason, that it is Bane in part, does hold up), that Xvim looks like some sort of hair-covered monster (older products said he looked coldly handsome, not so beastial), how they saw a statue of Bane representing him from another crystal sphere (Bane was a single-sphere deity, this was set down in On Hallowed Ground, and if he wasn't the Time of Troubles wouldn't have killed him it would have just cut his connection to Realmspace), how the Sensates were able to use magic to spy on the realms of the gods and still be in Sigil while they did that, and those are just errors in Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck that I can recall off the top of my head.

In fact, Iyactu Xvim's defeats in the sequel probably figured heavily in his decision to give up his own identity and assume the mantle of Bane (which is what I believe happened). I'd say Finder is in real trouble with Bane as a personal enemy, but my impression is that Bane is not prejudiced. He hates everybody!

Xvim never made a "decision" to give up his own identity and become Bane again. He was always intended from the beginning to act as an egg, a shell carrying Bane's essence until the dead god could gestate and burst forth, reborn anew. Xvim only thought he was an independent, sentient being, and had no idea that he was just a vessel for the new incarnation of Bane. Both the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and Faiths & Pantheons make this very clear. Also, while Bane does hate everyone, I doubt he has any personal grudge against Finder, since Xvim's mentality was not his own. The list of the gods Bane hates is in listed in order in, iirc, Faiths & Pantheons and, again iirc, Finder isn't even on there.
 
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It's my opinion that if Planescape novels can't be expected to respect the setting's cosmology, Forgotten Realms novels sure as hell can't. Ergo, Finder's Bane doesn't have any impact on my campaigns. Heck, Forgotten Realms novels barely respect Forgotten Realms cosmology.
 

The Traveler said:
It's my opinion that if Planescape novels can't be expected to respect the setting's cosmology, Forgotten Realms novels sure as hell can't. Ergo, Finder's Bane doesn't have any impact on my campaigns. Heck, Forgotten Realms novels barely respect Forgotten Realms cosmology.

LoL! You got that right. FR novels barely respect FR continuity, much less cosmology...
 

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