D&D General The Crab Bucket Fallacy

[Scribe]

Like @Scribe stated it's about numbers.

50% odd is okay for attacks when you get 2 of them a turn and are drilling down an HP bar.

But when you are rolling Out of Combat with a Poorly written DMG with few examples in the most successful RPGs every with a community of New DMs who lack experience and Old DMs with harsh failure expectations of older editions...

50% odds is not so great.

My rogue is floating in the Plane of Blood due to a failed Cha check then failed Cha save. Drowning in blood.

Right, its not great, its a coin flip.

So just like I've been pushing in a number of threads.

What are the assumptions?
What is consistent?
What are the metrics of success?

Should we be passing 70%?
Is 'expertise' in a subject 90%?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Good blanking luck Tony.

If players are too noobish tired or lazy to remember what modifiers they have for skills there's no way you're going to divorce skills and ability scores.

Therefore the best course of action is to just add new skills that are just the similar action as existing skill with a different ability score.

What makes you think they're not just going to keep using the name of the skill they're already used to, then? If someone is operating that much on autopilot, there's only so much you can do for them.

 

[Minigiant]

Right, its not great, its a coin flip.

So just like I've been pushing in a number of threads.

What are the assumptions?
What is consistent?
What are the metrics of success?

Should we be passing 70%?
Is 'expertise' in a subject 90%?

The DMG says a "a character with a 10 in the associated ability and no proficiency will succeed at an easy task around 50% of the time"
This means with a 16 or being proficient and level 5 raises you to 65%.

That isnt easy to me.
A will skilled or very talented being doesn't fail an easy task 35% of the time under pressure.

Lower all the DCs by 5

 

[Thomas Shey]

5e's already not where I want it to be out of the gate, necessitating I fix what I want to fix. I see no value in fixing something that's not a problem for me until it is.

That;'s your choice, but if I have to get in and do work on a game system (which, admittedly, usually has me deciding to use another game system, but I get the limitations people in the D&D-sphere work under), I'm going to try and be sure as much as possible I only need to do it once, and that means working on not just the current problems.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That;'s your choice, but if I have to get in and do work on a game system (which, admittedly, usually has me deciding to use another game system, but I get the limitations people in the D&D-sphere work under), I'm going to try and be sure as much as possible I only need to do it once, and that means working on not just the current problems.

Nah, I like messing with games.

 

[Tony Vargas]

That isnt easy to me.
A will skilled or very talented being doesn't fail an easy task 35% of the time under pressure.

This is really more a d20 distribution problem. BA exacerbates it.
If a game must stick to small modifiers in a pretense of simplicity, 2d10 or 3d6 give more desirable distributions.

 

[Scribe]

The DMG says a "a character with a 10 in the associated ability and no proficiency will succeed at an easy task around 50% of the time"

Right. No bonus, no proficiency, straight roll, 10 or more is 55%

DMG: "Easy" DC? 10.

I mean it seems you just have issue with basic assumptions of the games design.

 

[Minigiant]

This is really more a d20 distribution problem. BA exacerbates it.
If a game must stick to small modifiers in a pretense of simplicity, 2d10 or 3d6 give more desirable distributions.

It's a DC problem.

Naming the easy DC 10 and Moderate DC 15 makes people think a challenge that is "not easy but not hard" DC15.


A 14 ability score with a +2 proficiency is worse than a coin flip. 50/50 on Moderate doesn't make me feel good at the action.

 

[Minigiant]

Right. No bonus, no proficiency, straight roll, 10 or more is 55%

DMG: "Easy" DC? 10.

I mean it seems you just have issue with basic assumptions of the games design.

Yes.

DC 15 for moderate is too high.

 

[Scribe]

Yes.

DC 15 for moderate is too high.

Why? Like, honestly why?

At level One, assuming I have a 14, and Proficiency, thats a 50% ya?

Its a moderately difficult task. Not easy to the degree of being hand waved, not easy but still notable so 'Easy' DC 10, but a difficulty that is 'moderate'.

Just remove moderate, and say instead 'even skilled, this is a 50/50'.

You step up to the plate. You are paid literally millions of dollars to hit a baseball.

You succeed 30% of the time, and this is good.