The D&D Experience (or, All Roads lead to Rome)

Dr Phyl: Well, folks, it seems that I'm no closer to understanding the reasoning behind the original conception of Beguiling Strands, Hypnotism, and other straight-jacketed spells. Tune in next time, when I waste more time on loyal legions of fans that don't understand the problem.

First off, it isn't as if 'Dr. Phyl" failing to understand things is at all a grand argument. It isn't like the icon you're invoking is recognized for his depth of understanding, comprehensive analysis, or the like.

Far more importantly, sarcasm is a thoroughly ineffective tool for getting someone who doesn't already agree with you to listen and understand. Mockery may be fun for you, personally, but it is not constructive in the conversation. Please stop.
 

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Meh. I've written rules for nuclear weapons with explicit damage. They work when you apply a context for the GM and group to carry over. They're in Ascension, the mast book for the old Mage.

Thing is, a lot of you are basically judging rules as if the role of RPG players is to sit around like an imbecile, interpreting what the rules output as simply as possible. This is not desirable behaviour in the players, and it isn't possible to design well for these theoretical imbeciles.

If there is a choice between an absurd and non-absurd interpretation of what a game system does, you should obviously choose the non-absurd unless you're in it for comedy. If you have three jump cards per day, then this obviously refers to the number of times you can successfully jump challenging distances in situations that matter to the story. If you roll 4 on 4d100 for a nuke, it means the nuke acted strangely.

If you cannot take this basic imaginative step, then you suck at playing RPGs, and you will never be happy with them.

That said, there is some responsibility on the part of the game to help you get there, by explaining how to interpret this sort of thing. This is where 4e has faltered. Many fighter exploits obviously represent not just a technique, but a combination of technique, focus and opportunity that only comes up every once and a while, where the players get to decide when that "stroke of luck" might occur, and die rolls determine if it actually does. This is elegant in play and fits cinematic conventions, but it's a bit convoluted to actually describe.

Then again, so are 1 minute rounds, and I use those in my current game.

There are many, many contexts in which a nuke fizzling out will seem absurd. If the game is designed such that a nuke might fizzle, and the game setting is such that absurdity will result, and absurdity is not desired, then the game is improperly designed.

It's true, I didn't really account for a fizzle. But if a nuke does a tremendous amount of damage, and yet doesn't kill a normal human being, noting that the nuke "behaved strangely" doesn't really help me intepret what has happened. Obvious, something strange has happened; that is the problem with the resolution. So, you are incorrect, I am not judging the rules as if they were written for imbeciles. I am judging them according to their usefulness.

It's easy to handle a nuke that fails to destroy anything. It's easy to handle a nuke that destroys everything. It's taxing to narrate how a nuke is going to destroy buildings, yet spare some living creatures in ground zero.
 



Little more cogitation on the whole Hero thing.

Maybe we're going about this backward. If the definition of the "core" experience of D&D encompasses games whose goals are to capture that core, even if they aren't specifically Dungeons and Dragons games, is that failure of the definition or a success of the emulation?

If you've taken a system and recreated D&D, doesn't that mean that it will be captured by any definition of Rome?
 

Baaad decision.
I'm not so sure. I have a wife, a job, and so much more to do. D&D forums are a huge distraction. Getting banned would be a blessing in disguise. Oh General Ooombran, take me now! I [insert a comment about somebody's mother]

Mod Edit: Do not taunt Happy Fun Moderator. Stick by the rules, please. ~Umbran
 
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[MENTION=957]BryonD[/MENTION]... As long as you put... In my experiences as a qualifier there, sure.

However, in my experience, I've played plenty of good games in 3.x and I've played plenty of good games in 4e. They all felt like really good games, and some in both felt like GREAT games. And I didn't see a difference in the way I felt about the good games in 4e vs 3.x. So your assertion that a good game in 3.x is somehow better than a good game in 4e doesn't jibe with my experience.

If, however, you're speaking for everyone... I call shenanigans.
Call whatever you want.

With regard to the whole narrative burden / "opportunity" aspect of the debate of the topic, I think it is simply a matter of inspection to come to my conclusion.

But that doesn't need to be the focus of what you find fun.

I will readily concede that 4E is a great game. But Texas Hold'em is also a great game. 4E and 3E have a hell of a lot more in common with each other than they have with Texas Hold'em. And if this specific topic is not important to you then the differences that do exist are not important.

I don't doubt for a second that 4E fans have awesome experiences playing 4E. Only an idiot would suggest that other people are not having fun doing something they choose to do for fun. Your 4E games are great.

But your great 4E games are not as great at certain things as my 3E games are at those things. And, no less true, my 3E games are not as great at certain things as your 4E games are at those things. They have different strengths and weaknesses.

But if you want to say that every strength of 3E is equally present in 4E, then that would just tell me that you are unaware of what you are missing.
 



[MENTION=957]BryonD[/MENTION]... I wasn't trying to suggest that there aren't differences between 3.x and 4e. All I'm saying is that I get the same level of satisfaction from playing in both systems. In the post that I was responding to, you weren't making the distinction that the systems were different... you were saying that the experience of playing with one was better than playing with the other. That's subjective... and that's all I was saying.

[MENTION=84810]NoWayJose[/MENTION]... I got nothing for you. Thanks for showing your true colors though. Now I know I can ignore you for the rest of this conversation.
 

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