The Darkness That Comes Before [Closing Down]

[Ferrix]

Well, can he atleast give it a coup-de-grace and free it with the coup-de-grace? ;-) Be free! *chunk down goes the sword blade*

So basically this is a manifest and run type power, or manifest and everyone gather around to whack it once i cut it free type power... nifty and useful for taking enemies out of commission if only for a short time... also since they are helpless do they fail successive reflex saves automatically?

although it's good for those silly flyer types... cocoon and here he comes falling out of the sky... *thud*

 

[Thanee]

I though it was more like a 3.0 Hold Person with a reflex save instead of a will save. Hmm, it's a lot weaker this way.

Don't forget, that it is not limited in target like Hold Person (humanoids only)!
Otherwise it's pretty equal (size restriction, range, duration, level, ...)

It should be a bit weaker in effect, to even this out. Or not?

And if I got it right, you can still CdG the helpless victim, it just takes more time (like maybe 3 rounds instead of 1, 2 to make a cut and 1 to actually do the CdG). At least, that's what I meant above.

Will the cocoon also block the line of effect of spells and powers?

That's a good question. It might actually protect against harmful effects from outside (i.e. bursts, like fireball), since the victim is completely covered, that would make sense. But if the strands get destroyed, damage comes through (similar to a door being burned by fireball, I think there is an example in the book). If anything, that's a case-by-case decision.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Serpenteye]

Don't forget, that it is not limited in target like Hold Person (humanoids only)!
Otherwise it's pretty equal (size restriction, range, duration, level, ...)

It should be a bit weaker in effect, to even this out. Or not?

Perhaps not. Most psionic powers are a lot weaker than equivalent magic spells. All the damage-dealing spells, monster summoning, and domination type spells are a lot stronger for the arcane caster. Most of their buffs and transportation spells can also affect others besides themselves and they usually have higher DCs for their spells because they don't depend on multiple abilities for their spellcasting.

It's no more than fair that some (and very few) psionic powers are more powerful than equivalent spells. Cocoon should be better than Hold Person, Animal Affinity and Schism should be better than the Animal-spells and Haste (because they can only affects the caster). Psychofeedback is a necessary part of the balance between the classes. Imo.

 

[Ferrix]

You could always update to the XPH, Psionics get a nifty overhaul there.

also in the XPH it states in Ectoplasmic Cocoon that you can't harm the creature without first destroying the cocoon... and they bumped it to a 3rd level power... pretty lame if you ask me... if hold person is an instant coup-de-grace, the duration on cocoon should be a heck of a lot longer to make up for it 1 rnd/level to just hold an opponent at bay isn't all that great... although i think you are able to torment the sucker mentally if you have any abilities that do that ;-)

 

[Thanee]

It's no more than fair that some (and very few) psionic powers are more powerful than equivalent spells.

Yeah, some powers can be a bit better, while most spells should be better than powers (because psions get a few other advantages (speaking of 3.0 now), like skill points (4 per level), no components (most important V/S, but also some M, i.e. Intertial Barrier) and the ultimate flexibility with the PP system). Of course they also have this stupid multiple stat dependancy in 3.0, which evens some things out (altho considering how easy stats are boosted in 3.0, that's at least not a major disadvantage - Animal Affinity alone takes care of that pretty much).

Cocoon should be better than Hold Person

It actually is better, if you ask me. Especially if you compare it to the 3.5 one save per round version. Even if you cannot simply kill the entrapped victims.

Animal Affinity and Schism should be better than the Animal-spells and Haste (because they can only affects the caster).

Animal Affinity has a big advantage over the compareable spells (6-in-1) at least. And Schism... well in 3.0 Haste was horrible anyways... hard to compare something to a broken spell like this.

Psychofeedback is a necessary part of the balance between the classes. Imo.

Psychofeedback is just ridiculous (at least at higher levels).

The new 3.5 version, too, btw, just from the other side (it's horribly underpowered now). They really seem to have a hard time to hit the right balance with the psioncs stuff somehow. The 3.5 XPH didn't quite hit the PHB balance level IMHO.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ferrix]

The new 3.5 version, too, btw, just from the other side (it's horribly underpowered now). They really seem to have a hard time to hit the right balance with the psioncs stuff somehow. The 3.5 XPH didn't quite hit the PHB balance level IMHO.

They do that a lot, they usually peg something too high, then when gamers point out the inbalance they knock it down a peg below even decent. It might as well be flavor text the way they knock stuff down sometimes. But... on to the game!

The Psionicist does have some advantages (like they can wear armor), but the 3.0 multiple stat-dependancy is a touch silly (just allow a psionicist to pick a main attribute which is used for all manifestations would have seemed a better idea than making it only intelligence as in 3.5).

 

[Erekose13]

Ok here comes the big DM ruling. I have gone back over the discussions on the boards that I frequent as well as looking more thuroughly through the Psionics Handbook and Expanded Psionics Handbook. The rules are vague in the 3.0 version and I believe that the 3.5 version is the way that the power was intended to work. So here it is:

Those trapped in the cocoon cannot be harmed physically (besides cutting off their airsupply) without cutting them loose.

I will allow it to remain as a second level power as is with that sentence added in. In this particular case I have been handling it completely wrong as the creatures are large which kinda makes it all moot, and they are indeed immune to crits. So for this battle the cocoon works on the wolves keeping them out of the battle until the stands wear off.

On the other topic of the balance between spells and powers there are a lot of factors that play into where the authors decided to place the balance. From the ability to use a particular power many times a day, to the versatility that the power point system offers, to multistat dependancy. Pegging powers at a slightly lower point on the balance scale was the right way to go in my opinion. With the use of scaling offered in If Thoughts Could Kill damage-wise the psion was brought up to a balanced point.

My comments on specific powers mentioned: Animal Affinity is too powerful and can easily be broken. As no one has tried to brake it yet in any of my games I havent bothered to update it to the 3.5 version of things. Schism is worse than haste, but haste was always the most powerful spell in a wizards arsenal (above many higher level spells). So leaving Schism as is given the demise of Haste is fine with me. Psychofeedback is just sick and wrong. No power or spell should be able to grant you a +100 DC to your Disintigrate, ever. Once again no one has abused it in my campaigns so I havent provided any particular ruling on it. There are a few more that are sick and wrong, but all in all SerpentEye's character is not taking advantage of any of them so I have no qualms.

 

[Serpenteye]

Ok, that seems pretty fair. Thanks.

 

[Thanee]

"Gotta memorise a mend spell in the morning, can't go around in torn robes, clients will never take me seriously!"

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ghostknight]

Bye
Thanee

Glad you liked it