the Defending property

[Hypersmurf]

I agree, nothing in the rules say that, the sword is still a +5 magical sword even if you shift all the bonuses for defense, you can bypass dr/magic with it...

No, you can't. DR X/magic is bypassed by a weapon with a +1 or greater enhancement bonus. Once you've transferred all of the weapon's enhancement bonus to provide an unnamed bonus to AC, it isn't a weapon with a +1 or greater enhancement bonus, and doesn't bypass the DR.

-Hyp.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I agree, nothing in the rules say that, the sword is still a +5 magical sword even if you shift all the bonuses for defense, you can bypass dr/magic with it, you don't get this +1 masterwork to hit

This all looks right, definitely.

 

[kjenks]

If I transfer the +5 enhancement bonus from magic to AC, I have not transferred all the enhancement bonus, only some. The +1 enhancement bonus from masterwork remains. And yet, a +5 enhancement bonus was transferred.

The two bonuses overlap, but they are still separate bonuses, and can be affected separately. I'm not transferring "+5 of my +5"; I'm transferring "+5 of my [overlapping +5 and +1]" - some, not all.

-Hyp.

Nope. You're misinterpreting the rule. All means all.

 

[Hof]

OK, Hypersmurf, I have to ask: What are your answers to the original questions?

Say you have a +5 Defending shortsword. You cast Greater Magic Weapon on it, giving it a +5 bonus that normally overlaps with its existing bonus. Then you shift all five bonus points to AC. Would the weapon still strike at +5?

Related question: Say you have a +1 Defending shortsword. You cast GMW on it, giving it a +5 bonus. How many points can you shift to AC?

The way I read your arguments, the answers would have to be 'yes' and '5' respectively. And wether or not this is valid by the RAW, would you rule it as such in your own game?

Hof.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Certainly there is. The ability specifically states that I can elect to transfer some, rather than all.

The 'some' I elect to transfer is the magic +5.

Oh, I see. So once you elect to transfer all of the magical enhancement bonus, then the sword no longer has a magical enhancement bonus, right? The sword would then "lock up" as it were and need to be rebooted some how. After all, without an enhancement bonus, it can no longer be redistributed. In other words, in round 1 you transfer the +5 from your +5 defending longsword into AC. At the beginning of your turn in round 2, you have a masterwork longsword with no enhancement bonus. So, the defending property is useless because there is nothing to allocate. As you said, the masterwork bonus cannot be allocated.

If you remove all the magic from the sword, whether by an antimagic field, a dispel, or transferring it's magic into a defensive sheild...you're still left with a very sharp, well balanced, masterwork sword....which gives +1 to Attack.

But that's not what happens. The magic is not removed, lost, or suppressed. The defending property does all the work without removing any magic.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Nope. You're misinterpreting the rule. All means all.

And, therefore, "some" means "some."

 

[kjenks]

And, therefore, "some" means "some."

Exactly.

Take a +5 defending longsword. Its +5 magical enhancement bonus overlaps with its +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls from it being masterwork, so it has just a +5 enhancement bonus.

Presumably, you can allocate none of its enhancement bonus to AC, when you choose not to use the ability. You may allocate some or all of its enhancement bonus to AC, as follows:

+5 attack and damage, +0 AC = "none"
+4 attack and damage, +1 AC = "some"
+3 attack and damage, +2 AC = "some"
+2 attack and damage, +3 AC = "some"
+1 attack and damage, +4 AC = "some"
+0 attack and damage, +5 AC = "all"

I can understand how people could be confused by the strange wording of the ability, but once you understand that the enhancement bonuses overlap so that there's only ONE enhancement bonus, it becomes clearer what the rule says.

 

[FEADIN]

No, you can't. DR X/magic is bypassed by a weapon with a +1 or greater enhancement bonus. Once you've transferred all of the weapon's enhancement bonus to provide an unnamed bonus to AC, it isn't a weapon with a +1 or greater enhancement bonus, and doesn't bypass the DR.

-Hyp.

If you go that way the sword is loosing is enchantment because:
A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any of the abilities listed on Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities or Table Ranged Weapon Special Abilities.

For you, if the tranfert is real and you follow the text the sword becomes non magical!!
Or you cannot transfert the last +1 because it will cause the defending property to be gone!!!
That's a joke, the magic is still there.

. Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, by magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality.
That's right but for me the magic is still there because it was enchanted to at least a +1 enhancement bonus and can't loose it without loosing the defending property (see the sentence up).

And for the original question I will say that the new enhancement can be used for the defending property until the end of the spell, and sunder will be substracted from the bonus points from the enhancement (as temporary hp).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I can understand how people could be confused by the strange wording of the ability, but once you understand that the enhancement bonuses overlap so that there's only ONE enhancement bonus, it becomes clearer what the rule says.

Uh, that's a nonsequitor and incorrect, besides.

I am the recipient of a 3.0 and a 3.5 Bull's Strength spell.

On grants me an enhancement bonus of 1d4+1 to Strength, the other an enhancement of +4 to Strength.

How many enhancement bonuses to Strength do I have?

How many enhancement bonuses to Strength do I benefit from?

The answers are not the same.

Similarly, your comments about the sword are in error.

 

[ARandomGod]

As Hyp posted above, if you're transferring those enhancement bonuses to defense, I don't see how they would still apply their hardness and HP benefit.

I don't see how it wouldn't apply... as Felix stated, the magic of the blade isn't suppressed or removed, it's still GOT a + X enhancement, that enhancement is just being used defensively.

That being said GM Fiat rules in my games...

And THAT being said, a GM who wants to sunder a weapon will, regardless of bonus. And a GM who routinely sunders weapons will end up either at least one player short (I'll just leave) or at least one player who never, ever invests in magical weapons.

Now, for fun, on to his question:

Say you have a +5 Defending shortsword. You cast Greater Magic Weapon on it, giving it a +5 bonus that normally overlaps with its existing bonus. Then you shift all five bonus points to AC. Would the weapon still strike at +5?

I'm going to vote no, along with everyone else. But then I'm going to point out that you did it wrong! FIRST you must transfer all it's +5 to defending (so that you have effectively a nonmagically striking masterwork weapon), THEN you cast Greater Magic Weapon on it. Now there's no overlap issue!

Of cousre, I'd still rule "No" in that situation. But by RAW that does muddy the waters a bit as far as I can see.

Related question: Say you have a +1 Defending shortsword. You cast GMW on it, giving it a +5 bonus. How many points can you shift to AC?

I'd rule that you can only transfer one. Because that's how I see the magic working. +1 is magically defending, +5 is "other" magic, and can't be used to transfer. But that's really a judgement call as far as I can see.