the Defending property

[Nail]

... but once you understand that the enhancement bonuses overlap so that there's only ONE enhancement bonus,....

Err...????

When bonuses overlap, the bonuses suddenly become just one bonus?

Show me where it says that. ...I'll give you a head start: you won't be able to find such a statement.

 

[ARandomGod]

Err...????

When bonuses overlap, the bonuses suddenly become just one bonus?

Show me where it says that. ...I'll give you a head start: you won't be able to find such a statement.

He's got you there. Overlapping things both exist, they just (generally) don't do you any *Good*. However there are some circumstances where they would help. This might be one... another would be if you have two +5 bonuses and a dispel was made, and one of them was dispelled or suppressed, the other would still be there, still function.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The way I read your arguments, the answers would have to be 'yes' and '5' respectively.

Yup.

It was more fun in 3E, where a character with the Divine Shield feat could grant his shield an enhancement bonus (to attacks and damage) equal to his Charisma bonus for several rounds. If the shield was crafted as a Defending weapon, a character with, say, a 26 Cha could have a +8 shield that added a +8 unnamed bonus to AC, for a total of 18 points of AC from one shield...

And wether or not this is valid by the RAW, would you rule it as such in your own game?

Ah, well. That's a different question. But probably.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For you, if the tranfert is real and you follow the text the sword becomes non magical!!
Or you cannot transfert the last +1 because it will cause the defending property to be gone!!!

This is a Known Issue with the wording of the ability. It's been discussed before... pretty much since 3E was released

Yes, as written, if you transfer the last point of enhancement bonus to AC, the weapon cannot have the Defending property, so the bonus reverts from AC to enhancement bonus, and the Defending property becomes active once more.

As written, to avoid this, one must ensure that at least one point of enhancement bonus always remains.

-Hyp.

 

[azhrei_fje]

Yes, it does.

Unless you mean to imply that the "some" referenced in the ability refers to "a random amount."

Sorry, I should've been more clear. What I meant was that the description does not allow the user to separate the masterwork enhancement from the magical enhancement. You'll notice that the description doesn't say that you can transfer the "magical enhancement", but just "enhancement". To me, that means that the ability is grouping together all enhancements and treating them as one. (Which is what the stacking rules do as well.)

Per the original question, I would not allow GMW enhancement points to transfer. I would rule that the cost associated with putting defending into the weapon (what is it, +1? +2?) would've been higher if the enhancement bonus were higher. So the cost of defending is limited to the enhancement IN the weapon, not ON the weapon, and therefore the power level is not sufficient to transfer more than the bonus originally imbued into the weapon.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Sorry, I should've been more clear. What I meant was that the description does not allow the user to separate the masterwork enhancement from the magical enhancement. You'll notice that the description doesn't say that you can transfer the "magical enhancement", but just "enhancement". To me, that means that the ability is grouping together all enhancements and treating them as one. (Which is what the stacking rules do as well.)

Or, a more logical reading, it only refers to the magical enhancement, and you can't affect the masterwork one.

Especially since the stacking rules do not "roll up" multiple enhancements into a single enhancement. You retain 4 separate enhancement bonuses to Strength, it's just that you may only benefit from a single bonus at a time.

 

[mikebr99]

I'll have to agree with Hyp, on that you can transfer some or all of the magical enhancement bonus to defense... still leaving the weapon with it masterwork qualities.

But disagree with Hyp's suggestion that a fully defending sword, looses it's magical properties WRT sundering.

This is all IMO... the defending property is allowing the weapon to deflect more of the attacks against you... hence the extra AC. The weapon is taking the hits, not you... the magic isn't leaving the weapon at all... YMMV.


Mike

 

[Nail]

To me, that means that the ability is grouping together all enhancements and treating them as one. (Which is what the stacking rules do as well.)

Not true.

The stacking rules DO NOT treat all enhancement bonuses as one enhancement! It treats them as separate enhancements, and you are affected by the highest one. The other ones are also there.....they do not disappear.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Man, Nail and I are repeating each other a lot in this thread.