The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory
- Thread starter Aexalon
- Start date
Pit Fiend Defenses Extrapolation:
Fort = Con *2 + Level = 8 * 2 + 26 = 42
Ref = Int * 2 + Level = 6 * 2 + 26 = 38
Will = Wis + Cha + Level = 5 + 9 + 26 = 40
AC = Dex * 2 + Level + Net Armors and Penalties = 7 * 2 + 26 + 4 = 44
(Edit: This is assuming the 1/2 level isn't considered part of the ability modifier. I actually expect it might be. Then it would just be Con * 2, Int * 2, etc.)
Fort = Con *2 + Level = 8 * 2 + 26 = 42
Ref = Int * 2 + Level = 6 * 2 + 26 = 38
Will = Wis + Cha + Level = 5 + 9 + 26 = 40
AC = Dex * 2 + Level + Net Armors and Penalties = 7 * 2 + 26 + 4 = 44
(Edit: This is assuming the 1/2 level isn't considered part of the ability modifier. I actually expect it might be. Then it would just be Con * 2, Int * 2, etc.)
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Sir Brennen
Legend
The *2 Stat mods for what... being "Soldier" type? Elite? Leader?Burr said:
humble minion
Legend
Odd little setting implication of this: for any non-pit-fiend devil, it's a distinct disadvantage to be fighting on the same side as a pit fiend, because he can blow you up at any time and you have no chance of resisting it. In fact, it a fight starts to go badly then such a devil would be entirely justified in deserting and running away before it gets exploded - although then of course it would be in all sorts of trouble if the pit fiend managed to survive and seek vengeance. And it would HAVE to, or risk being seen as weak by its remaining underlings. This is all in character, I suppose - the pit fiends have a measure of control over devildom due to fear, but mutiny stirs constantly under the surface.
It begs the larger question though - there's an awful lot of mention in the stat block of 'enemies' and 'allies', and these labels have very distinct game-mechanical effects (some of which are a little odd - a reason for allies being immune to the Aura of Fire is hard to visualise, to say the least). But there's all sorts of shades of gray between 'ally' and 'enemy' that this system might have problems with. Temporary 'enemy-of-my-enemy' alliances like the entire final third of Savage Tide? Spies who are, unknown to the pit fiend, pretending to be allies? Genuine allies under the mental control of enemies? There'll have to be a ruling on all of these or the whole business will be a mess. It could very plausibly could be the 'Alignment Wars' of 4e, even...
It begs the larger question though - there's an awful lot of mention in the stat block of 'enemies' and 'allies', and these labels have very distinct game-mechanical effects (some of which are a little odd - a reason for allies being immune to the Aura of Fire is hard to visualise, to say the least). But there's all sorts of shades of gray between 'ally' and 'enemy' that this system might have problems with. Temporary 'enemy-of-my-enemy' alliances like the entire final third of Savage Tide? Spies who are, unknown to the pit fiend, pretending to be allies? Genuine allies under the mental control of enemies? There'll have to be a ruling on all of these or the whole business will be a mess. It could very plausibly could be the 'Alignment Wars' of 4e, even...
Sir Brennen said:
For being anything I would expect. Consider the +29 Fortitude poison it uses. For a PC to make that check, they'd also have to have fairly large Defenses. Ultimately, the *2 is necessary so they can add Charisma and Wisdom to get Will without throwing everything else out of balance.
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easiest way: Anyone you are aware of, you may choose to designate as an ally. Everyone else is a foe, though someone who you specifically choose to recognize as an ally remains so, even if you lose specific track of them.
The aura of flame threw me for a bit. I think, barring forthcoming explicative flavor from another quarter, that my explanation for it will be the same as my explanation for the ally explosion: The pit fiend is a marshall of Hell, and a bearer of its mightiest weapon, the balefire. His touch leaves lingering flame, his presence sears flesh, and his minions burn with his unholy inspiration.
Yes? Yes. He is the Eye of Fear and Flame, isn't he just!
The aura of flame threw me for a bit. I think, barring forthcoming explicative flavor from another quarter, that my explanation for it will be the same as my explanation for the ally explosion: The pit fiend is a marshall of Hell, and a bearer of its mightiest weapon, the balefire. His touch leaves lingering flame, his presence sears flesh, and his minions burn with his unholy inspiration.
Yes? Yes. He is the Eye of Fear and Flame, isn't he just!
Ycore Rixle
First Post
Bit of a rant here...
Is anyone else bothered by the poor writing? For example, in the first paragraph, we find that "... pit fiends form an elite ruling class that oversees vast numbers of lesser devils." Then two paragraphs later, we learn, "... pit fiends command vast numbers of lesser devils." Um, duh, I just read that.
And how about those "legion devil legionnaires," as Wolf Spider pointed out? Awkward.
And the pit fiend "wears an ornate breastplate decorated with evil symbols and runes." Oh, really, the big nasty devil has evil symbols? I'm shocked because in my last 3.5e game the pit fiends all had Barney embroidered on their chests. Not to mention that I'm really glad I'm clear on the fact that the breastplate has symbols and runes.
We also have this gem: "Penetrating the defenses of a pit fiend's castle and destroying the mighty devil in its own demesne is a deed of truly epic proportions." Even if we accept that penetrating and destroying should be considered a single deed and thus agree numerically with the singular verb (and I can agree to that - it's just a little awkward), why do I need to be told that a Pit Fiend Level 26 Elite Soldier (Leader) is a "mighty" devil? Gosh, I might have confused him with all those weak and pathetic Level 26 Elite Soldiers (Leaders) from the Nine Hells. And: "truly epic proportions"? Truly epic? Not just a little epic, or somewhat epic, but truly epic? Are they sure?
Sigh. I'm still looking forward to 4th edition. I'm just tired of bad writing.
Is anyone else bothered by the poor writing? For example, in the first paragraph, we find that "... pit fiends form an elite ruling class that oversees vast numbers of lesser devils." Then two paragraphs later, we learn, "... pit fiends command vast numbers of lesser devils." Um, duh, I just read that.
And how about those "legion devil legionnaires," as Wolf Spider pointed out? Awkward.
And the pit fiend "wears an ornate breastplate decorated with evil symbols and runes." Oh, really, the big nasty devil has evil symbols? I'm shocked because in my last 3.5e game the pit fiends all had Barney embroidered on their chests. Not to mention that I'm really glad I'm clear on the fact that the breastplate has symbols and runes.
We also have this gem: "Penetrating the defenses of a pit fiend's castle and destroying the mighty devil in its own demesne is a deed of truly epic proportions." Even if we accept that penetrating and destroying should be considered a single deed and thus agree numerically with the singular verb (and I can agree to that - it's just a little awkward), why do I need to be told that a Pit Fiend Level 26 Elite Soldier (Leader) is a "mighty" devil? Gosh, I might have confused him with all those weak and pathetic Level 26 Elite Soldiers (Leaders) from the Nine Hells. And: "truly epic proportions"? Truly epic? Not just a little epic, or somewhat epic, but truly epic? Are they sure?
Sigh. I'm still looking forward to 4th edition. I'm just tired of bad writing.
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Thundershield
First Post
Seems this thread is beating a few dead horses, so I'll try to voice a few new questions:
1. What is the range of his Infernal Summons? Can he conjure his allies from several miles away? Doubtfully. But if not, what is the range on it?
2. When he uses Irresistible Command, how does the devil in question slide those 5 squares? Does it freeze up and literally slide across the ground as if there suddenly was a layer of grease under it? Does the Pit Fiend teleport it there? Is it telekinetically hurled at the enemy, screaming as flames burst from its orifices?
Just a few things that puzzle me, and a bit of description as to how the less obvious abilities act out would be nice. Makes it a little easier to describe what happens in the heat of battle.
1. What is the range of his Infernal Summons? Can he conjure his allies from several miles away? Doubtfully. But if not, what is the range on it?
2. When he uses Irresistible Command, how does the devil in question slide those 5 squares? Does it freeze up and literally slide across the ground as if there suddenly was a layer of grease under it? Does the Pit Fiend teleport it there? Is it telekinetically hurled at the enemy, screaming as flames burst from its orifices?
Just a few things that puzzle me, and a bit of description as to how the less obvious abilities act out would be nice. Makes it a little easier to describe what happens in the heat of battle.
humble minion
Legend
Lackhand said:
Wouldn't work in the pit fiend case. He'd just be able to happily designate any devil in existence as an 'ally' and then kill it as a minor action with no defense possible. Not good news for rival pit fiends (or the Lords of Hell for that matter!) if that were the case...
'Ally' and 'enemy' have to be a two-way street.
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D_E
Explorer
Finally responding to a couple of things from upthread (way, way upthread):
First, the problem with the fly speed is the clumsy manuverablity, plus having to work in 3D. So while he can fly up to fight, I'd prefer if he didn't have to, for reasons of simplicity (buzzword, much?). Having a decent ranged attack removes most of the 3D, swerving like a drunken butterfly manuvering that he'd otherwise have to do to get into melee range.
The 1 Action Point thing: If there's no recharge mechanic, then their strategy write up is something that a Pit Fiend can only use once before the DM has to hand wave it. Plus, you have the naritive problem that a being just below the Lords of Hell blows his one an only Action Point the instant he catchs sight of the PCs. Hellish assasination attempts, off screen battles, whatever it is, he gets through it with that Action Point in reserve, but as soon as he sees a PC he fires it off?
And finally: Yes, he is an Elite, but his fluff says he's only got ~12 alied peers. So you shouldn't have two Pit Fiends show up in the same encounter unless you really mean it. Likewise, pretty much anything in hell should be < Level 26, otherwise you have to ask why the Pit Fiends in charge.
EDIT: Oh, the more stuff I have to make up, the more likely it is I'll make a mistake and do something unbalancing. One of the things I'm paying WotC to do is playtest.
First, the problem with the fly speed is the clumsy manuverablity, plus having to work in 3D. So while he can fly up to fight, I'd prefer if he didn't have to, for reasons of simplicity (buzzword, much?). Having a decent ranged attack removes most of the 3D, swerving like a drunken butterfly manuvering that he'd otherwise have to do to get into melee range.
The 1 Action Point thing: If there's no recharge mechanic, then their strategy write up is something that a Pit Fiend can only use once before the DM has to hand wave it. Plus, you have the naritive problem that a being just below the Lords of Hell blows his one an only Action Point the instant he catchs sight of the PCs. Hellish assasination attempts, off screen battles, whatever it is, he gets through it with that Action Point in reserve, but as soon as he sees a PC he fires it off?
And finally: Yes, he is an Elite, but his fluff says he's only got ~12 alied peers. So you shouldn't have two Pit Fiends show up in the same encounter unless you really mean it. Likewise, pretty much anything in hell should be < Level 26, otherwise you have to ask why the Pit Fiends in charge.
EDIT: Oh, the more stuff I have to make up, the more likely it is I'll make a mistake and do something unbalancing. One of the things I'm paying WotC to do is playtest.
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