The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

[Lackhand]

Looking through the pit fiend's abilities again, it seems like it's more Soldier than Leader as it doesn't have many Leader-type abilities: just the teleporting (which admittedly can be quite nasty in itself though it does use up a standard action), and the allied devil exploding. In addition, I personally think it would be nicer if Irresistable Command could be used as an immediate reaction to an allied devil going below 0 hp, which turns it into something that gives its lower-level allies a "last gasp" attack instead of just being a "blow up my minions" ability.

Also its +4 to summoned creatures and a few nice debuffs.
And the fact that it always brings a crowd to a party.

It occurs to me that, still, no loot pictured: it may be that (random speculation) all humanoids at a certain tech level (say, all humanoids without the 'savage' descriptor, or all eternal humanoids + humanoids with class levels) get to use the NPC charts for wealth. That'd mean that big, red, and ugly there would get some significant boost in which tricks he could pull.
He probably wouldn't get to use too many Instruments, as his weapon and armor are already tied up, and his wings would get in the way of a cloak.

Hmm.

 

[FourthBear]

Huh? Where are the devices and tools beside the Mace? Incredible magic Items? My A@@!

Where is ANY mechanical implication that the Pit Fiend cn be a social encounter instead of being another speed bump for the PCs?

Do you actually think that you'll be able to capture even a fraction of the devices and tools possibly available to a Pit Fiend in a standard combat block? That's for the DM to devise for a particular encounter. Do we really want to give *every* Pit Fiend in existence a list of devices and tools available to them? 'Cause that's the result of over-specifying in your standard stat block.

As to the social implications, this is a stat block with the primary use in combat encounters. It does have Bluff, Intimidate and Relgiion skills noted, so it is incorrect to say that is has no mechanical implications for social interaction. How many more social skills do you want in this stat block (which, again, would result in giving those as standard to *every* Pit Fiend)?

 

[Fifth Element]

I'll just assume that the 4E devs are not morons

Words to live by. Though such an assumption would certainly reduce the number of threads in the 4E forum...

 

[The Crippler]

Ah, so this is where the real discussion is. The news item only has a page and a half of discussion!

I think that this monster is a wuss, a chump, a loser and worst of all, boring for the DM to run. At 26th level, a monster should be able to do more then just one of 3 possible options. He should have choices that are interesting! Instead, he sits back and... blows up his own minions? I can't imagine him lasting too long in combat, since his damage-dealing just does not seem too impressive. Remember, HPs are going UP in 4th Ed. and there are going to be a lot more sources of healing. A lot of people are saying that it's because you should now expect to face a number of foes all at the same time. Well, that doesn't make sense to me. Am I supposed to assume that the PCs will be fighting five of these guys at once? That's not streamlining combat -that's turning the game into Gauntlet.

Here's what's really worrying me. I'm not impressed with this design and that says to me that, once again, high-level play design has not been given the attention it deserves. Do you remember how the 3rd edition Pit Fiend was a chump? Then, when 3.5 came out they beefed him up significantly. The designers realized that they had erred on the side of caution by too large a margin. Players don't want pushover monsters when you're talking about the iconics. They want a tough, memorable fight. This guy may be tough (lots of HP)... but I'm not so sure about memorable.

 

[Grazzt]

The article states: "Nobles of the Nine Hells, pit fiends form an elite ruling class that oversees vast numbers of lesser devils. Only the archdevils known as the Lords of the Nine stand higher than the pit fiends."

If dukes of the hells do exist, that means that the pit fiends all outrank them, which doesn't make them seem very special to me at all. In this case, they would occupy quite a different niche than the dukes of earlier editions (big surprise there).

So they may be in 4e, but they would be pointless.

End of the article mentions this:

"Well-known pit fiends include Baalzephon, one of the powerful circle of pit fiends known as the Dark Eight; Gazra, who governs the city of Abriymoch in Phlegethos, the Fourth Hell; and Baalberith, the major-domo of the palace of Asmodeus."


Maybe all the dukes are now just pit fiends? If so, not a fan.

Baalzephon was mentioned in the 1e MM2 (beginning of the devils section where it lists a lot of the uniques), Prime Minister of Dis, and Baalberith (same book), Major Domo for Asmodeus. Dont recall seeing their stats anywhere in 1e and I dont think they were in Dragon 75 or 76 (Ed Greenwood's articles on the Nine Hells), but most dukes weren't pit fiends (except Hutijin)

 

[DaveMage]

You might consider to "re-use" some of his special abilities, "Irresistable Command" could be an interesting ability for that purpose.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about the pit fiend using allies as bombs.

I think I'd just prefer a fireball, although the flavor is...interesting. Seems more of a demon's tactic, though, to sacrifice your own allies, but I'm probably thinking in non-4E terms there.

 

[Grazzt]

This guy may be tough (lots of HP)... but I'm not so sure about memorable.

It'll be memorable- he can blow up his minions (yeah- not a fan of that idea myself)

 

[DaveMage]

It'll be memorable- he can blow up his minions (yeah- not a fan of that idea myself)

Think of the potential, though!

All he needs is a wand of charm (or somesuch) to make a PC an ally, then blow him up!

Heck, everyone will be looking for that magic item that grants the same power the pit fiend has. It'll be a new schtick. Charm & Blow!

 

[rkanodia]

Think of the potential, though!

All he needs is a wand of charm (or somesuch) to make a PC an ally, then blow him up!

Heck, everyone will be looking for that magic item that grants the same power the pit fiend has. It'll be a new schtick. Charm & Blow!

Irresistible Command only works on an allied devil. So now he'll need a Wand of Polymorph to go with it

 

[Grazzt]

Think of the potential, though!

All he needs is a wand of charm (or somesuch) to make a PC an ally, then blow him up!

Heck, everyone will be looking for that magic item that grants the same power the pit fiend has. It'll be a new schtick. Charm & Blow!

Good point Dave. Blowing up charmed allies works. Might have to try that one. And yeah- Charm and Blow for sure