The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

[skullking]

He is listed as level 26, which would just replace any instances of HD.

Hmm...

350 - 26 * 8 Con = 350 - 208 = 142 = 5 * 26 + 12

So if we assume Con adds to HP the same way, it looks like he has 5 hp/level plus a 12hp bonus. That, or d10 HD = 5.5 hp/level with a bit of a rounding error.

If you assume 3 hit dice at 'first level' you get:

28 x 4.5 (d4) = 126
con bonus of 8 x 28 =224
126 + 224 = 350

 

[Stogoe]

Avoiding redundancy is an accepted rule of writing.

No, it's not, and if you think so, you've been misled. Repetition helps people remember information. In a game rulebook, getting people to recall information they've read is one of the most important goals.

 

[zoroaster100]

I don't have a problem with the Irresistible Command ability to blow up minions for this monster. After all, devils are supposed to be the supernatural exemplars of evil law. It's not hard to imagine that they have sold their souls and thereby subjected themselves to utter abuse by their overlords. Besides, they probably get 'reborn' in hell shortly thereafter (even if shortly means a few years or centuries, which is nothing to an immortal).

 

[Forgefly]

In regards to the social abilities of the Pit Fiend, I was struck by the

As the lords, barons, viziers, and generals of the Nine Hells, pit fiends rarely confront adventurers in person. They are the progenitors of devilish schemes, and they step in only when important plans go awry or when great plots reach fruition

Which suggest that the Pit Fiend's social interactions are completed by other devils (read newly devilish succubus) This Pit Fiend has an entire army of devils to accomplish it's out of combat needs possibly including high level wizards warlock clerics who have sold their souls to the devils. I am not sure it matters if the Pit Fiend himself can perform the rituals in the same way a human king doesn't need to perform the rituals to have the rituals benefit him.

In regards to the Irresistible Command, It tells us the explosion destroys the allied devil, but what happens to an immortal devil when he is destroyed. It is possible this is only a temporary inconvenience to the devils.

If a Pit Fiend Teleports away from combat for 5 rounds and returns with more non summoned minions does he get to summon again? If this is true a Pit Fiend who is already described as a general or baron can dump an entire army of devils on the PC's using his Teleport and Frenzy to take out leaders and strikers, his minions to tie up the Defenders, and his Irresistable Command to make life miserable for the Controllers. All of this is possible without extra items and quite possibly irrespective of PC power levels.

Factor in a Fiendishly difficult Trap/Environment and the PC's won't have enough actions to keep up.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Pardon me for not wading through 15 pages before making an injection...

I have no problem with Irresistible Command, I just don't think it should be used by default.
Certainly level 21 legion devil legionaries and level 22 war devils can dish out more damage over the course of a fight than a one-time explosion for 2d10+5.

Now, I think it's a great thing to use, especially if that devil is about to be killed anyway, or if you absolutely have to do damage to an otherwise unreachable PC, but the writeup comes across as if the sole purpose of the summoning is to provide ammo for the Irresistible Command. The tactics even dictate doing this on the Pit Fiend's first turn. I'd let the devils do the dirty work before blowing them up.

 

[Eridanis]

Please keep real-world politics and religion out of this discussion.

 

[Wolfspider]

I don't have a problem with the Irresistible Command ability to blow up minions for this monster. After all, devils are supposed to be the supernatural exemplars of evil law. It's not hard to imagine that they have sold their souls and thereby subjected themselves to utter abuse by their overlords. Besides, they probably get 'reborn' in hell shortly thereafter (even if shortly means a few years or centuries, which is nothing to an immortal).

See, to me this entire thing seems very chaotic and not very like devils at all. I guess I have too much of a pre-4e mindset to embrace these new "improved" pit fiends and their weird tactics.

EDIT: I just realized that in some posts I've even been saying "balor" instead of pit fiend. In my mind, the new pit fiend just seems so demonic instead of devilish.

 

[Prodigal_Sun]

Please keep real-world politics and religion out of this discussion.

I'm sorry I didn't have the intention to talk about world politics or religion, I just wanted to illustrate that maybe the "irresistible command" power was not so far fetched/silly/videogamey as many accused it to be.

 

[helium3]

Editors tighten up good writing and make it better. I would say it is bad writing and bad editing. The writer should clean it up as much as possible before it ends up on the editors desk. I guess that is what happens if you pay per submitted word as opposed to actual printed.

See, I guess I'm a bit more forgiving here, being someone that would love to eventually do some freelance writing.

I definitely agree that it's not the best writing, but I can also see that the writer is attempting to generate a feeling of grand and epic scope. I see that a lot in fantasy RPG writing. Perhaps because, deep down, many freelance RPG writers really want to be fantasy writers.

I know that freelance writers get paid by the word, but It's difficult to imagine that a freelance writer would deliberately submit poorly written material just to make extra money. But then, I'm projecting my own personal ethics onto other people and maybe that's not such a great idea.

 

[helium3]

It's not as giving a Wizard a spell like "Animate Dead" really explains where he got all the money to maintain his army of Undeads (is this within the NPC wealth guidelines?).

The whole point of the changes they're making to encounter and adventure prep in 4E is to make everything easier for DM's to set-up and run. From my experience, the part of set-up that's the most time consuming is, by no stretch of the imagination, dealing with the NPC wealth rules. Putting together a more specialized creature from levels or advancement isn't that tough once you've got a routine, but doing the accounting to make sure it doesn't have "too much stuff" is a real chore because of all the multi-book page flipping required.

I would want "Persistant Imagel" in a Pit Fiends stat block if the DM claims that a trap using one of these illusionary floors isn't worth any XP because the Pit Fiend did it (because it is really only factored into his level/XP if it's accounted for in his stat block).

And it's the idea that every nit-picky little bit of XP needs to be accounted for that first led to an extreme over-codification of the rules in 3E. And now, that excessive complexity is leading to the creation of an overly simplified version in the form of 4E.

Maybe the real issue here is that XP accrual needs to be decoupled from the slaying of individual monsters.