The DM, The Former DM, and the Wasteland in between

[VannaFox]

I know I know,
Newbie to the boards and the first thing I do is pitch a fit...
Sling me with snowballs, Whack me with anime mallets, Or tag me - whatever new-to-the-forums hazing is nessisary to get this double newbie's plea for advice answered.

I say double newbie, because not only am I new to the forums, But I'm new to D&D as well.

...


...Oh thank god your still reading.

The problem is a chaotic evil character. And a DM just as new to this as I am. The major trouble actually isn't the newbie DM handling the chaotic evil person. The real problem is that the chaotic evil character is actually an Experienced DM - who is constantly battling for control of the campaign with our newbie DM - and using the phrase "But I'm just playing the character's alignment" more an excuse to exert his control than a guide for the character's persona.
IN character, he oftentime's the plot of the campaign is interrupted with our Chaotic Evil Ex-Dm's latest long-winded murder of the nearest innocent bystandard. We can't even look at a village, dungeon, person, livestock, hill, lake, leaf, etc. without the resounded cry of "kill it!" and the in depth description of how he did so.
It gets boring, annoying, and unnessisarily vulgar - very fast.
Our Newbie DM's best way of handling it is to speed the game along into the next unpopulated area, keeping the rest of us from getting a chance to role play our characters, talk to the townsfolk to understand the plot, and other things that generally make the game what it is.

Outside of character, he will oftentimes argue with what he can and cannot do, and this isn't an ignorant newbie versus an experienced former DM. It borders telling the DM how to do her job. (Such as: I don't need to roll a move silently check to sneak up on that Orc. It's turned in another direction.)

The whole session ends up feeling like buying a shiney new console RPG game, plugging it in, and having it play itself in front of you. (Xenosaga anyone?)




What can I, the lowly player, do about this power play between DM's?

 

[Darrin Drader]

The question isn't necessarily the power gulf between the old and new DM, but a lack of respect the old DM has for the current players, including the new DM. I would mention to what amounts to a disruptive player that he/she is ruining everyone's enjoyment of the game and ask them to stop having their character behave in this way or suffer an alignment change. A helm of opposite alignment could do wonders. If that doesn't help, there is nothing wrong with heroic characters taking matters into their own hands and putting an end to his cycle of evil.

 

[Stalker0]

What alignment are the other players? If the character is interrupting or hurting their adventuring (and sounds like he might) then simply leave the other character behind... or in the worst of circumstances take him out.

 

[Fenes 2]

In such a case I'd tell the other player that his antics are ruining your fun, and that his right to "just play his character" ends where it ruins your fun. Either he changes characters and playstyle so that everyone has fun, or someone has to go.
I'd not try to handle it in-game - such "solutions" often end in an arm's race between players, and retaliation in-game. Better take a hold of the problem between the players to solve it - he can't "just play his character" when you ask him as player to player, or person to person, to show some consideration for your own enjoyment of the game. And if he does not care about your fun, or anyone else's, then he is not exactly a person your should be gaming with.

 

[Dagger75]

First off Welcome to the boards and the hobby.

Secondly, your first post jumps right into the middle of one the most hotly debated subjects in D&D, Alignment.

I to think it is a respect issue. I can tell you from experience when the rare chances I get to play, I have to hold my self back from arguing with a DM or using some metagaming knowledge. This DM seems to be on a power trip. I don't know how good of friend this guy is but if he is ruining everybodies elses fun then tell him. Tell him you fell he is ruining this DM game. As a former DM him self he should know what thats like.

 

[Ashrum the Black]

A little more information on the group may help us understand the dynamics here.

That being said, I'd have to say that if the whole group also feels this way then you all should sit down and discuss this. I'm assuming you're all friends and that you all want to remain so. From personal experience I can say that it is always better to get these things out now before the fester into something larger and nastier.

As a group talk to the person, explain how this is affecting your enjoyment and how you're percieving their actions. Expect that this individual may have some complaints of their own as well. Perhaps the campaign isn't combat heavy enough for them, or roleplaying heavy so they're making up some action or drama to fill that void. Both of you will need to be prapared to make some changes.

Now, this may not be the case at all. This person may be just trying to have some fun at the newbies expence. Or they just may have a different roleplaying style all together. If either of these is the case than it may be time to have the talk about this individual finding a group that plays more to their style. Never an easy conversation, but always better if it's done before there are hurt feelings on anybody's side. Above all, come at the conversation as friends, and adults.

Oh and one peice of advice for the DM. I'd nic the whole aloowing evil PC's thing. It just tends to cause problems with party infighting. Especially for a group that sounds newer to gaming. Heck I've been playing for 20 years and I still don't do evil PC's. If I want the agnst and drama of a bad PC, I'll go play a white wolf product.

Just my two CP.

Sorry about the length of the reply.

 

[apocalypstick]

Welcome to the game! Hope you're having fun...

In regard to your question, I have two questions for you...

1: If your character was aware of an NPC type doing the things that the player-character in question is doing, would you want to stop him? Would he be an "enemy?"

2: Can your character tell the difference between a character that is controlled by the DM and one that is controlled by another player?

Follow that to its logical conclusion and you've got your answer.

 

[Kyramus]

Remind the former DM of Rule 0.

Rule 0: The DM is always right.
- The fact that he ISN'T the DM of this game could pose a serious problem health wise to his character. The Newbie DM could divinely grant him all sorts of maladies and curses. Next time he wants to kill an innocent, he is hallucinating and ends up cutting of a finger. For each time he does so, he cuts of a finger. In the end I doubt he'll be able to hold a sword, nor want to play that particular character.


Rule 1: If you think the DM is wrong, see Rule number 1.

Whoever runs the game is the legitimate and ultimate authorithy of what happens in game. If the CE character decides to be unrully and killing innocents, THERE are repercussions. Militia with rewards for his head. bounty hunters. Innocent relatives who are hunting him down to bring him to justice, etc. If the party members don't restrain him, they could be accomplices.

 

[Zappo]

Helm of opposite alignment! Helm of opposite alignment!

Also, what about the other PCs? Are they evil enough that they'll let this character get away with horribly murdering innocents? Since this definitely puts the whole party at risk of being accused and hunted, I reckon even other evil characters would want to put a stop to it, unless they are just as insane as this one. I think that if a helm of opposite alignment somehow found its way on the head of this character, the rest of the party wouldn't lift a finger to remove it.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

This one is easy.

1) Kill the ex-DM's PC.
2) Tell him you're playing your alignment - because whatever your alignment is, you'll be right!

Then either:
3a) Kick him to the curb, or
3b) Make him make up a PC who isn't CE. If he does, repeat steps 1-3 as necessary.