The druid is not fighting!!! LONG!

[mmu1]

Spoken like a true bully - implying that those who are on the receiving end deserve mistreatment, and using that as justification for victimising and misuse of power. It must be easy for you to get into character.

For what it's worth, CN barbarian half-wit half-orcs who need attitude adjustments simply annoy me, I've never had a character attacked by one. However, the violent hollow threats such characters tend to fling around are obnoxious, and the smokescreen of excuses their players hide behind (chaotic neutral, stupid, third-person speaking half-orc barbarians are allowed to bully around other PCs with threats of violence because it fits the stereotype) is deserving, IMO, of contempt.

Did you get picked on a lot as a child, or something? What really annoys me are people who try to psychoanalyse a complete stranger on a message board.

As for your experiences with CN Barbarian half-orcs... I could care less. Never played the type, so take your knee-jerk BS somewhere else.

 

[Tsyr]

Wow... the entire initial training of just about every Armed force in existance - called Boot Camp by those who appreciate it - can be summed up as one word: Evil. Because it's a sadistic person using a hell of a lot of hurting (Evil implies hurting) as a way to train people.

Physical therapists are evil. They inflict pay as a way of life, in an attempt to fix people.

Fitness trainers are evil, making people go through all that pain, oh and building a better body in the process.

If pain accomplishes something good, why is it evil?

What good is this accomplishing?

Besides, most of what you mentioned is volentary... Excepting the military in some countries. What your proposing is not.

 

[Mark Chance]

Did you get picked on a lot as a child, or something? What really annoys me are people who try to psychoanalyse a complete stranger on a message board.

Kind of like you just did?

As for your experiences with CN Barbarian half-orcs... I could care less.

How much less could you care? While I couldn't care less, someone else might like to know.

 

[Wippit Guud]

In this case you are not using it to train someone for military service or helping them get fit, your paying someone to beat him up simply because you don't like how he operates! What your suggesting is evil.

How about showing the druid what it's like? That a party is supposed to help eath other, not let their friends die. It's a much batter way to demonstrate rather than everyone running when the giant attacks, and letting him his the druid first.

If the druid won't fight, he shouldn't be outside his grove in the first place. It would only be done for his own good.

And why does it have to be evil? Why can't it be neutral? Animals subject their children to some pretty extreme things. Fly or fall, sink or swim...

 

[Pielorinho]

First, guys, lay off with the ad hominems, wouldja? Sheesh.

We recently played through a situation in our game that had some interesting similarities and differences. A group of assassins attacked us, and the party sorcerer was thwacked down to 0 hit points. I, playing a druid at 1/2 hitpoints, stepped forward to heal the sorcerer. He got away, but the next round, the assassins managed to knocked me down to -18 hit points. Oops!

To make matters worse, the sorcerer proceeded to betray the rest of the party to the bad guys over the course of the next several rounds. It was the culmination of a months-long plot thread. Eventually the sorcerer repented and rescued the surviving party members from the evil cultists to whom he'd betrayed us, but not before several companions were tortured.

When my PC was eventually reincarnated, he was full of guilt: had he not healed the sorcerer, the betrayal wouldn't have happened, and his companions wouldn't have been tortured by evil cultists.

We resolved this all in-character. Although we were originally all in favor of executing the treacherous sorcerer, we listened to his story, talked with him -- and watched in horror as, finally repenting of his actions, he was immolated by a curse placed on him by the demon he'd be serving. We eventually reincarnated him and placed him on party-probation, keeping him on a very short leash.

***************

The lessons:
1) Druids really can die quickly if they're on the front-lines. The party druid feared for his safety rightly.
2) Nonetheless, if you're gonna die as a PC, it's pretty fun to die in a self-sacrificing way. Major karma points are earned for dying in the process of saving a friend.
3) Party conflicts are natural and good, if they're handled correctly. Talk out-of-character about whether everyone wants to keep playing their PCs, and about how the PCs feel about what's happened; then play through it in-character, with an eye toward helping everyone advance their characters' personalities.

In this situation, let's assume that the psychic warrior is resurrected. I'm imagining him coming on gangbusters toward the druid, specifically blaming the druid for his death, and demanding assurances that it's not going to happen again. Other party members will likely back him up.

Maybe they'll tell the druid that next time he hesitates to heal someone, he'll be forced out of the group. They might demand that he procure several cure critical wounds potions to give to the psychic warrior at no cost, so that the latter doesn't need to rely on the former in the middle of battle.

And this can all be fun. It can be a chance for the group to see how party dynamics work.

If it's handled in a "punish the player" fashion, however, it's gonna suck for everyone. DO NOT do that.

Daniel

 

[Wippit Guud]

I'm not looking to 'punish the player' here, everything would be IC. My own campaign has a couple of people who, though they've been playing several years, still don't really know how to play the game. And yes, it's frustrating when they do something they shouldn't do, or don't do something they should do, but they also listen to ideas from the more experinced players on what would be good or bad. Hell, one even blatantly ignored me to do something I thoguht was wrong, but turned out right, so even I make mistakes.

But playing a character that doesn't contribute to the party when needed... in a real life situation, if I was going to Iraq or something, and someone in my unit keep hiding and never fighting, I'm pretty sure they'd be transferred out (if they're lucky... causing thr death of someone else?)

 

[Pielorinho]

But playing a character that doesn't contribute to the party when needed... in a real life situation, if I was going to Iraq or something, and someone in my unit keep hiding and never fighting, I'm pretty sure they'd be transferred out (if they're lucky... causing thr death of someone else?)

Keep in mind that if you were in a modern military unit, you would have gone through months of training with your comrades, training that covered many, many different situations. And part of that training would be having you learn to follow the orders of your commander unquestioningly and unhesitatingly.

If your party of adventurers hasn't gone through similar training, it's not realistic to expect similar behavior from them.

I do agree that PCs may be justifiably upset when a companion's inaction results in their death. However, I think the optimal solution to this problem will:

1) Be in-character
2) Allow the druid to stay in the group
3) Allow the druid to save face
4) Convince the druid to change his behavior.

Daniel

 

[Tsyr]

How about showing the druid what it's like? That a party is supposed to help eath other, not let their friends die. It's a much batter way to demonstrate rather than everyone running when the giant attacks, and letting him his the druid first.

Which in no way negates the fact you hired a guy to go beat the crap out of him. That's an evil act. End of story.

If the druid won't fight, he shouldn't be outside his grove in the first place. It would only be done for his own good.

Bull. Plain and simple, bull. It would be beating him up because he isn't helping the group as much as they want. It's not "for his own good". That has all the logic of real-life domestic abuse situations where the agressor says the same thing.

And why does it have to be evil? Why can't it be neutral? Animals subject their children to some pretty extreme things. Fly or fall, sink or swim...

Animals are inherently neutral... They lack the ability to differentiate good from evil. A snake who kills a man isn't being evil, it's just doing what it's programed to do. On the other hand, sentient beings are supposed to know better.

 

[Tsyr]

As for your experiences with CN Barbarian half-orcs... I could care less. Never played the type, so take your knee-jerk BS somewhere else.

Uhhh... What about that whole "I've had a Chaotic Neutral barbarian that would have gutted the Druid for being so pathetically craven... " line?

 

[Wippit Guud]

If your party of adventurers hasn't gone through similar training, it's not realistic to expect similar behavior from them.

Should having 12 levels of adventuring experience include what you would learn in 6 weeks of training?