The Dwarven Defender - Is it worth it?

[Jhulae]

I personally think the Dwarven Defender was meant as more of an NPC class.

They're quite good if the Defender is underground in narrow tunnels, keeping enemies from coming past them (where movement isn't necessary).

For most PCs, though, where combats may happen in buildings or outside (where there's lots of maneuver room), being stuck in one place is very limiting.

 

[the Jester]

Hmm, is it possible you guys have overlooked the potential of a dwarven defender with a reach weapon (especially spiked chain, where you can still attack close enemies)?

That said, I'm not really fond of the prc either.

 

[Jhulae]

Hmm, is it possible you guys have overlooked the potential of a dwarven defender with a reach weapon (especially spiked chain, where you can still attack close enemies)?

That said, I'm not really fond of the prc either.

Well, that's true, to a point.

A reach weapon gives the defender that extra attack area, but it still doesn't compensate for somebody hanging back and using ranged weapons or spells, which is where the lack of mobility really drags the class down.

 

[Shin Okada]

Hmm, is it possible you guys have overlooked the potential of a dwarven defender with a reach weapon (especially spiked chain, where you can still attack close enemies)?

That said, I'm not really fond of the prc either.

Yes. Spiked Chain, Duom (in AEG), Longaxe (in CAdv), Kusari-Gama, etc. helps. Especially when the Dwarven Defender is enlarged.

Still it is a very situational ability. But anyway, defensive stance is just one of the class's abilities. Dwarven Defender is strong even without that ability.

 

[Talic]

Yeah, it's a great PRC....just not so much for a PC. It's a shame too cause it's a pretty cool concept.

So often movement is very much needed in combat, and if your at your best when you cant move(or not much anyway), that poses a liability in most cases. More often than not,as an adventurer, you're going to need to bring the fight to the enemy.

 

[Shadeus]

I'm playing a dwarven defender and have been since 3.0 came out. It's a great PrC. The d12 hp, and high AC means you are the ultimate tank. As for defensive stance, I almost never use it (even as a level 19 char). When I do use, I charge into the middle of a bunch of monsters and then defensive stance. It's not like you are holding a sign out that says, "Hi, I'm in a defensive stance. Please don't take a 5'-step." So the monsters continue to wail away on you thinking they have you in flank (but they don't thanks to Imp. Uncanny Dodge).

With a Defensive Stance going, my character's AC is 50. With the 300 hit points he has to back that up, he doesn't do too bad. Add on top of that DR 6/- and you can take a few hits. Oh, and the Con bonus to Defensive Stance is nice too. And you do get fatigued getting out of the defensive stance.

You only can use defensive stance so often, and in most situations, it's just not worth it. I have 5 of them at my level and rarely use more than 2 per day. But the other innate abilities of the class (good save, AC bonus, good BAB, d12 hp) kind of make up for it.

In 3.0, high level fighters had even less than they do now, so it seemed like a good choice for me. Besides, it was the only time I've ever played a dwarf or a LG character, so I figured it was my only shot.

 

[werk]

Is that really worth it? Or would it be better to just be a Barbarian/Fighter?

Why not do barbarian/fighter and then DD? I didn't like the DD much myself, but after rolling one up and playing him as an NPC he was pretty tough. I think his benefits are really specific, but if you want someone to sit and soak damage, he's good. If you want someone to actually move around and fight, he's a regular fighter. It's situationally effective.

Also, nice avatar, that's my desktop wallpaper. I love APOD.

 

[Pielorinho]

Very interesting! I, too, was thinking that defensive stance + enlarge + reach weapon (especially spiked chain) + combat reflexes would be a nasty, nasty combination.

On a similar note, I'm thinking of seeing if my DM will allow me, a level 13 druid, to swap out my animal companion in favor of defensive stance, gained at a rate equivalent to the rate that a savage druid in Unearthed Arcana gains rage. Would this be a good, fair trade? I'm thinking that in animal form it'd be especially nice, since I'd be taking up extra space (thereby blocking corridors often) and could, if I chose an appropriate form, gain natural reach.

Daniel

 

[Gideon]

I played a Defender recently and found the defensive stance almost useless. Mostly because of the way my party played and was composed and the situations we fought in. I never hit a spot where 'You will not move me!' was effective. Everything moved around my charachter. So the defensive stance is only helpful, at least in my opinion, in certain situations.

The other benefits of the class are nice. 6/- DR and d12 HP as well as an AC bonus are all very nice class features.

Do you want your fighter to be offensive or defensive? DD is great for defense, chances are you will be the last one to fall over in a fight but you won't be nearly as good at killing things as an angry barbarian.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Why not do barbarian/fighter and then DD?

Alignment issues.

DDs must be Lawful, Barbs cannot be Lawful (and retain their Rage ability).