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philreed said:
It's more likely they all have the same opinion of baseline grid that I do.

BASELINE GRID SUCKS.

And I feel I am a "professional" layout artist. Over 8 years, 260+ newspaper issues, 60+ magazines, and 300+ books. Not to mention cards, boxes, ads, and other assorted items created in Quark or PageMaker.
The assumption that all companies mentioned by Joe don't use the baseline grid is plain wrong. WotC does, at least in their fantasy line, and I can only guess that the chose to not use it with d20 Modern is because for some people not using it seems more modern. I'd say it's the "zeitgeist", "style over substance" or similar, but that would sound too harsh, so I won't say that ;)

Malhavoc Press does use a baseline grid too, at least most of the time (from the books I personally own there's just one exception: Demon God's Fane). I like Malhavoc Press' layout, because it's both well crafted (not only because of such a somewhat minor issue as the baseline grid), easy to read and good looking. Their "page designer" Peter Whitley does an awesome job, IMHO.

It's a matter of personal preference. If it's flashy layout you seek, that's fine by me. But if you're seeking guidance and advice, you should at least listen to what other (with more or different experience, with different taste, with different "design ethics", etc.) have to say.

So no need for yelling, Phil ;)
(Didn't know that something as mundane as a baseline grid would steer up emotions that much.)

To make it clear: I'm not saying anyone who doesn't use baseline grid isn't a professional. Never did. Never will. There is, as I've pointed out before, a difference between a typesetter (boring layout, but accurate) and a layout artist (layout is great to look at, but hard to read). In a perfect world, we'd try to be both. Nearly no one is (myself included).

Lastly, I'd be interested in your opinion - why does baseline grid suck?
 

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Flyspeck23 said:
So no need for yelling, Phil ;)
(Didn't know that something as mundane as a baseline grid would steer up emotions that much.)

Sorry. Baseline grid is one of those things I really hate. While it can be used to make some nice layouts I find that it frequently is used wrong and disrupts how I want the art and text to work together.

Flyspeck23 said:
Lastly, I'd be interested in your opinion - why does baseline grid suck?

It has to do with some old projects that, frankly, drove me insane.
 

philreed said:
Sorry. Baseline grid is one of those things I really hate. While it can be used to make some nice layouts I find that it frequently is used wrong and disrupts how I want the art and text to work together.
It's a tricky beast, isn't it? ;)

It has to do with some old projects that, frankly, drove me insane.
Aaah, it's a personal issue. I hope it doesn't evolve into anything like "I'll kill each and every one of those pesky typesetters who is using baseline grid!", because then I'd definetly be on your hitlist :eek:



@Dimwhit:
Any news? Because, frankly, I think we could use that forum. This thread has obviously evolved in something different ;)
 

@Dimwhit:
Any news? Because, frankly, I think we could use that forum. This thread has obviously evolved in something different
I emailed Morrus. But since this isn't his day job anymore, I suspect it may take a couple days. But I'll let everyone know as soon as possible. :)
 

I've also got a request in for a (different by necessary) private forum, so I'll keep in touch with you guys when I get work back from Russ.
 

I've also got a request in for a (different by necessary) private forum, so I'll keep in touch with you guys when I get work back from Russ.

What, you're just going to tease us with that and not give any details about this new forum? :D
 

Flyspeck23 said:
The assumption that all companies mentioned by Joe don't use the baseline grid is plain wrong. WotC does, at least in their fantasy line, and I can only guess that the chose to not use it with d20 Modern is because for some people not using it seems more modern. I'd say it's the "zeitgeist", "style over substance" or similar, but that would sound too harsh, so I won't say that ;)
I didn't say these companies NEVER use Baseline Grid. I merely found examples of books by these companies where there was none.
Malhavoc Press does use a baseline grid too, at least most of the time (from the books I personally own there's just one exception: Demon God's Fane).
Book of Eldritch Might 2.
It's a matter of personal preference. If it's flashy layout you seek, that's fine by me.
And I agree with Phil though with a bit less passion. :). It's funny when I got my first d20 book (Crucible of Freya or Death in Freeport) I was shocked that it didn't have a baseline grid (even though at the time I didn't know what it was called). While at first I thought it unprofessional, I eventually came to like it.

I think it's far more important to get publishers not to do silly things like white on black text, watermarks with darkness weights close to the font darkness, or fonts that requires a decoder ring to read. Baseline grid is unimportant. Uneven column heights off by a line are fine.
 

Dimwhit said:
What, you're just going to tease us with that and not give any details about this new forum? :D

It is a forum for the ENArsenal writers to get together and share ideas and encourage each book to share ideas with other books in the line.
 



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