The e-publishing support group

[Flyspeck23]

Yes, Dimwhit, just do it. We'll sort it out later [honestly.]

(PS: The baseline is the imaginary base line that the letters all "sit" on, with descenders of the letters (like on y and g) hanging down. A baseline grid is and imaginary grid that the baselines of every item of text on the page all sit on. As a result the baselines of one column will be the same as those of another column, so you could draw a straight line from the bottom of the words in one column to those of another, across the entire page. It provides for a certain visual "neatness" but isn't at essential in an amateur publication in my opinion.)

It's not neat. Not using a baseline grid is like printing the page number near the inside margin. And, btw, ePublishing isn't necessary the same as amateur publishing.
For me, that's what this support group would be all about: help publishing a product as professional as possible. And nothing like "well, you could get away with this". IMHO of course

 

[Nellisir]

Dimwhit i would say go for it!

Ditto. I posted the link assuming public traffic in this thread was pretty low -- I doubt there are alot of casual browsers through here anymore. Posting a link in a new public thread makes me just a little queasy -- not so much the "publicity", as the likelihood that I'll either get fewer responses (if people here don't follow to a new thread) or more nonsense responses (Hey! Howcome this isn't done?)

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Nellisir]

For me, that's what this support group would be all about: help publishing a product as professional as possible.

But, is that "publishing a product as professional as possible" with what tools a person has, or "publishing a product as professional as possible", assuming you have professional tools and the knowledge to use them?

The first is great. The second is useless to me.

I'm a carpenter; I've been in the business for about 11 years now. I don't give people advice based on how many tools they own, or know how to use (actually, I'd advise staying away from tools you don't know how to use). Just because they're not professional, and don't own "professional" tools doesn't mean they can't get awfully close to professional quality with hand tools and some help.

Cheers
Nell.

Who still thinks this thing is a cool idea.

 

[Cergorach]

But, is that "publishing a product as professional as possible" with what tools a person has, or "publishing a product as professional as possible", assuming you have professional tools and the knowledge to use them?

The first is great. The second is useless to me.

I'm a carpenter; I've been in the business for about 11 years now. I don't give people advice based on how many tools they own, or know how to use (actually, I'd advise staying away from tools you don't know how to use). Just because they're not professional, and don't own "professional" tools doesn't mean they can't get awfully close to professional quality with hand tools and some help.

Althogh i do agree with you, skill is more important than the tools, i do think that the saying "The right tools for the right job." has merrit.

Think of it this way, i don't warm to the idea of building a house with just a pocket knife, although i could do it, it would be time consuming and it wouldn't give me the results 'modern' tools would give me...

As for using new tools and having the knowledge to use them, i think one of the objectives of this new forum would be to produce the best as quickly and cheaply as possible.

As for the tools, do as i did, download and install the (Indesign) tryout and use it for 30 days. After 30 days, delete it + all the mention of it in the registry. In the 'old' days when i didn't have any cash for these kinds of products i had a systems cd and just reinstalled every month ;-) As far as i know, nothing illegal about it...

Or ebay, $180 buys you Indesign 1.5, an upgrade from adobe to the newest Indesign version (CS) costs you $170...

The time you might save yourself by using the right tools might mean that you could earn a few extra bucks instead of doing annoying layout work that's easy to do in most modern layout programs...

I'll be looking into some alternatives for Linux myself (although its possible to run Indesign under Linux).
- Pagestream 4.1 Pro $149 http://www.grasshopperllc.com/
- Scribus 1.1.1 free http://web2.altmuehlnet.de/fschmid/

 

[Nellisir]

I want to make it clear, I do appreciate the comments (except for that one about my mother ), and I am considering all of them. I won't -use- all of them, but I will play around with a bunch of different stuff.

And if I have something that gives a baseline grid, I'll try using it -- though I have to confess, I like having the vertical sidebar, and I don't see how 9pnt text and 10 pnt text are going to line up and still look decent.

Cheers
Nell.
Who feels a little less snarly now.

 

[jmucchiello]

There's a thing called "baseline grid". Call me old-fashioned, but I rather like it. That way the lines of your main text (in every column, on every page) will be on equal height.

Goes to shelf, picks up random Mongoose product: sees text that doesn't align across columns. Picks up random Malhovic product: sees text that doesn't align across columns. Repeats with Fiery Dragon, Atlas Games, Green Ronin, Bastion, WotC (d20 Modern). I guess none of these companies use "high-end" products or don't employ professional layout artists. A shame really.

 

[Dimwhit]

I'll contact Morrus now about the new forum.

 

[Fast Learner]

It's not neat. Not using a baseline grid is like printing the page number near the inside margin.

I appreciate that you are of that opinion.

I'm pretty certain that my 12 years of typesetting and layout make my opinion equally valid and I disagree with you. There are tons of professionally printed products that don't align to a baseline grid. It does provide a visual neatness and it's nowhere nearly as important as the location of the page number. That's my equally valid opinion.

 

[Flyspeck23]

Goes to shelf, picks up random Mongoose product: sees text that doesn't align across columns. Picks up random Malhovic product: sees text that doesn't align across columns. Repeats with Fiery Dragon, Atlas Games, Green Ronin, Bastion, WotC (d20 Modern). I guess none of these companies use "high-end" products or don't employ professional layout artists. A shame really.

There's a difference between a layout artist and a typesetter. I think that's the whole point. Ask both, and you'll get two different opinions, both possibly valid. The first talks about "great looks", and the other about "legibility". Both would be equally important. IMHO some (most?) roleplaying products nowadays fall more into the "great looks" camp (and I'm not only talking "baseline grid" here).
And, really, all I did say was: you could improve your layout in that regard.

I'm pretty certain that my 12 years of typesetting and layout make my opinion equally valid and I disagree with you. There are tons of professionally printed products that don't align to a baseline grid. It does provide a visual neatness and it's nowhere nearly as important as the location of the page number. That's my equally valid opinion.

Ok, I've exaggerated. For comments on "rules of the craft" vs. "skills of the art", see above.

 

[philreed]

Goes to shelf, picks up random Mongoose product: sees text that doesn't align across columns. Picks up random Malhovic product: sees text that doesn't align across columns. Repeats with Fiery Dragon, Atlas Games, Green Ronin, Bastion, WotC (d20 Modern). I guess none of these companies use "high-end" products or don't employ professional layout artists. A shame really.

It's more likely they all have the same opinion of baseline grid that I do.

BASELINE GRID SUCKS.

And I feel I am a "professional" layout artist. Over 8 years, 260+ newspaper issues, 60+ magazines, and 300+ books. Not to mention cards, boxes, ads, and other assorted items created in Quark or PageMaker.