The End of Angel

[Henry]

Seriously, as someone who lives near the Amish, I can assure you...they're not ignorant of technology so much as they just plain reject it. And the Mennonites don't even do that, so much. But I trust the distortion of so-called "reality" television to misrepresent that, too.

That particular episode was a pretty good portrayal - not really negative, so much as the guy took a bus, got mugged, and they had to find a way to get him home. I seem to recall it was played more from the "homespun wisdom" angle, but it has been a while.

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Alas, poor Angel - doomed to TVLand reruns in 10 years' time... At least they're showing him on TNT now.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Crusade is the textbook case of how meddling in a show by a network can destroy it. When you contrast the first episode broadcast with the episode that was obviously meant to be the real first episode, it becomes clear that B5:Crusade was a good show done a great disservice. I still mourn the lost opportunity that was Crusade. Especially after reading the three unfilmed episode scripts that JMS released (including the season finale).
[\QUOTE]

I always got a kick of how TNT wanted more alien sex in Crusader, so JMS did played with it some, the hyperspace creature humping the ship. Just glad the WCW format was not added.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

No, mainstream would be your standard sitcom (Friends, Frasier, etc.), drama (NYPD Blue, ER, CSI, etc.), or reality show. Sci-fi, fantasy, shows about the supernatural are not mainstream now matter how popular they may become.

Occasionally something like the X-files transcends it's niche, but it's an up hill battle for evey similar show.

*shrug* your opinion, can't agree with it. EVERY show fights an uphill battle, and almost every show has some hook that seperates it from the mainstream. NYPD Blue, one of your examples, was billed as far from the mainstream when it was introduced. Law And Order, my favorite show which has run for 13 seasons now, started out as an expereiment with several ideas that put it out of the mainstream (and was sold to three networks before it was even shown once).

Buffy was a followup to a movie (a tug to the mainstream) following the adventures of a fashion consious spunky teen (mainstream) with an ensemble cast of supporting teens (mainstream) with supernatural battles (the hook). In other words, just another TV show. It showed on network TV, it's star was made fun of in the onion, it's 6th season was advertised on the side of MBTA busses in boston. It was mainstream TV. Its spinoff was, well, a mainstream spinoff - with a hook! hey, everything has to have a hook!

And, lets face it, everything eventually goes off the air. But when you're looking for the reason that your show went off the air, I guess "they just couldn't handle its non mainstream themes which only appeal to people as cool and enlightened as me" makes us all feel better about losing a show we liked than "it hit a slump and wasn't what the execs needed." (hey, it definitly made people feel better about crusade!)

Kahuna Burger

 

[LightPhoenix]

Crusade is the textbook case of how meddling in a show by a network can destroy it.

Just to throw in my opinion, I think a better textbook case would be The Invisible Man (the SFC version). Great first season, terrible second before it was canned.

 

[WizarDru]

*shrug* your opinion, can't agree with it. EVERY show fights an uphill battle, and almost every show has some hook that seperates it from the mainstream. NYPD Blue, one of your examples, was billed as far from the mainstream when it was introduced. Law And Order, my favorite show which has run for 13 seasons now, started out as an expereiment with several ideas that put it out of the mainstream (and was sold to three networks before it was even shown once).

Some shows are much less mainstream than others. "Everybody loves Raymond", "The King of Queens", and "Reba" are all about execution...there isn't anything out of the ordinary there. Law and Order was (and is) an innovative format take on the police procedural/legal procedural....but it had been done before; again, the execution is what set it apart. It has a great gimmick (and one not really seen since the Arrest and Trial in the 50s)...but if the acting and writing hadn't been up to snuff, the 'hook' wouldn't have done much for it. And Dick Wolf is another creative force, like so many others, who've had their tussles with studio executives over the content of their show.

 

[Umbran]

Buffy was a followup to a movie (a tug to the mainstream) following the adventures of a fashion consious spunky teen (mainstream) with an ensemble cast of supporting teens (mainstream) with supernatural battles (the hook). In other words, just another TV show.

Faulty logic #1 - followup to a movie only makes it mainstream if the movie were also mainstream. The movie seems to only have grossed $14 million at the box office, and it met poor critical reviews. If nobody watched the movie, how can it have been in the mainstream?

Faulty logic #2 - the fact that some elements are mainstream does not mean the show is mainstream. Teens are mainstream, so that all shows with teens are mainstream? By that logic, if the show has human beings in it, it is mainstream.

When trying to decide if a thing is "mainstream" don't look at what's in it. Look at who likes it. If it appeals to many individuals and many different types of people, the thing is mainstream. If it appeals only to narrowly defined groups, or very few people in general, it isn't mainstream.

 

[KnowTheToe]

Oh well, life goes on and it was not going in a direction that really interested me. I still considered it good enought to watch weekly. I will probably loose Smallville as it is not good enough on its own, but since it was on the same night as Angel, it was easy to schedule.

 

[Kesh]

Crusade is the textbook case of how meddling in a show by a network can destroy it. When you contrast the first episode broadcast with the episode that was obviously meant to be the real first episode, it becomes clear that B5:Crusade was a good show done a great disservice. I still mourn the lost opportunity that was Crusade. Especially after reading the three unfilmed episode scripts that JMS released (including the season finale).

Please tell me you have those scripts saved somewhere? I've been wanting to read those, but they're not up on any sites I can find.

 

[Staffan]

Yes and No. B5's original 4th+ 5th seasons were crammed into the 4th season when they thought they were going to end. The actual 5th season is stuff TNT picked up B5.

Yes and no. According to JMS, the original Plan was to end season 4 around the time of Sheridan's capture. Intersections in Real Time (the interrogation episode) would have been either the last episode of season 4 or the first of season 5.

The main thing that went "wrong" with season 5, from a planning standpoint, was that Claudia Christian left the show. Otherwise, Ivanova would of course have been B5's new captain instead of Lockley. I also think she would have been the one to get involved with Byron instead of Lyta.

 

[Umbran]

I also think she would have been the one to get involved with Byron instead of Lyta.

Not likely. Lyta's involvement was required for too many other plot elements regarding the Telepath War, Bester, Garibaldi, etc. Those things don't play out properly without an anomalously powerful telepath being involved, and that means Lyta, since Talia was removed from the picture.