The ENWorld Electric Bard Gear (Etc) Thread


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R_J_K75

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Growing up in Buffalo the Hip played here a lot and I remember 91-92 when "Up to Here" got popular. Worth the watch

 


Dannyalcatraz

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This came yesterday. I remember when I was 15-16, wanting an ESP. They are now LTD which is some subsidiary of ESP?? IDK if you can explain it to me, please do.
LTD is to ESP roughly as Squier is to Fender, Epiphone is to Gibson, G&L Tribute is to G&L USA, PRS is to Paul Reed Smith, and so forth. Essentially they’re all ways to get people playing guitars that look, sound and feel a certain way, but at a lower price point.

The less expensive brands use some of the same parts & hardware- how much depends on the company and particular model- but get manufactured in countries with lower labor costs than the parent company. Originally, that usually meant Mexico, but the past couple of decades have seen rising use of factories in South Korea, Indonesia, Viet Nam, China and others.

Early on, that often went hand in hand with lower quality products overall, as a rule, but modern CNC machines & other automated processes have resulted in gig-worthy gear being produced in factories all over the world.

There’s still issues, of course. Tremolos made with inferior metals or less robust construction won’t hold tune as well. Cheap pickups can sound audibly worse, but it’s not a certainty that they will.
 

R_J_K75

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LTD is to ESP roughly as Squier is to Fender,
Thats what I thought too but I don't think the distinction is that clear. If you look at the guitars on Sweetwater when I searched ESP most if not all are branded ESP LTD. You may be correct and its just a weird branding thing, but I did ask someone who worked at a music store a while back and even they couldn't give me a succinct answer.


The less expensive brands use some of the same parts & hardware
Tell that to Fender and Squier. You'd be surprised how much their parts are not interchangeable. Eli Whitney is rolling over in his grave. Weird as it is, Fender and Squier both use a "Fender" style machine head, but the post diameters and where the nubbins sit are both different. Go figure???
Early on, that often went hand in hand with lower quality products overall, as a rule, but modern CNC machines & other automated processes have resulted in gig-worthy gear being produced in factories all over the world.
I own many Squiers, Epiphones, and a few Fenders, but no Gibsons. I would put a Squier and Epiphone up against most Fenders and I wouldn't even buy a Gibson. Figure about $500 up front and $500 in mods, I get what I want and I'm still in the black.
There’s still issues, of course. Tremolos made with inferior metals or less robust construction won’t hold tune as well. Cheap pickups can sound audibly worse, but it’s not a certainty that they will.
Admittedly, Squier, Epiphone, etc use some cheap pot metal on things such as bridges, bridge
saddles and probably fret wire, but those are usually cheap fixes if youre looking to swap out some stuff. I think the line between budget guitars and "gig worthy" guitars is getting pretty blurred. Unless you're looking to spend $2-3K the differences between a $500-$1200 budget and gigging guitars is getting hard to tell.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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Right now, almost every true ESP is a premium guitar or custom shop order. IOW, most of what you’ll see in stores will be LTDs. To get an ESP, you’ll have to find a shop that sells a decent percentage of premium gear.

Because there so little interchangeability between their parts, Fender/Squier is currently kind of the outlier among manufacturers. Some companies are so generous as to use 75% or more of the same parts between their premium lines and entry level, with most of the differences being labor costs, finished, and premium pickups, maybe some fancier wiring options.

G&L’s Tribute line is a great example of this. The Tributes have fewer finish options, slightly cheaper tremolos and they use lesser pickups, but generally speaking, they’re using the same parts to build in the USA as they are in Indonesia.

I’d say, partly because of its history as a legitimate competitor before Gibson bought them, Epiphones are also among the better entry-level options compared to their parent companies. Hell, there’s even the occasional premium guitar released exclusively by Epiphone, with no true Gibson analog.
 
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R_J_K75

Legend
Right now, almost every true ESP is a premium guitar or custom shop order. IOW, most of what you’ll see in stores will be LTDs. To get an ESP, you’ll have to find a shop that sells a decent percentage of premium gear.
This was the impression that I got as well.
Because there so little interchangeability between their parts, Fender/Squier is currently kind of the outlier among manufacturers. Some companies are so generous as to use 75% or more of the same parts between their premium lines and entry level, with most of the differences being labor costs, finished, and premium pickups, maybe some fancier wiring options.
Not being able to swap out part between Fender and Squier just seems odd to me. I don't know a whole lot on the manufacturing side of things but using my example of machine heads, you'd think it would be easier to make one style instead of two.
G&L’s Tribute line is a great example of this. The Tributes have fewer finish options, slightly cheaper tremolos and they use lesser pickups, but generally speaking, they’re using the same parts to build in the USA as they are in Indonesia.
I had my eye on a G&L a few years back and it was about $2K, so more than I could spend at the time. Then COVID hit and the price went up a few hundred dollars and then it went out of production. I was looking at some last week, the cheapest one I found was about $500 and they got really pricey from there. I was listening to Facelift last weekend and wondered why I don't have a G&L yet. Then I remembered they aren't cheap.
I’d say, partly because of its history as a legitimate competitor before Gibson bought them, Epiphones are also among the better entry-level options compared to their parent companies. Hell, there’s even the occasional premium guitar released exclusively by Epiphone, with no true Gibson analog.
I have an Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro that was a Sweetwater exclusive. I really like it. Out of all the Epiphones I own none of them say Gibson anywhere on the guitar itself. It might on the paperwork but I don't think so. If you didn't know most people would just think they are another Gibson knockoff. A lot of people think that Squier and Epiphone are inferior, which IMO opinion couldn't be farther from the truth. A friend of mine has a pretty extensive Guitar collection with a few premium Gibson Les Pauls which I've played, and I'll say I wasn't overly impressed, not enough to spend $2K+ on.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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I own no guitars produced by Fender, Gibson, or any subsidiary company they owned at the time of the guitar’s production. (I do own some from companies that were acquired later.)

For the most part, it’s because neither has offered guitars that give me the tones I seek paired with the right feel. I’ve come close, though. Squier has made a couple of baritones that interested me.

And I almost bought 1+ high-end Gibson SGs that actually felt as good as they looked, without the QC issues that seem to plague* the brand. But of the 3 I was considering, a few hours before I could act, someone came into the store and bought them all. I’ve never been able to find any other SGs like them, either.






* as in, they’re too often not made as well as they should be for the prices they ask
 

payn

I don't believe in the no-win scenario
I own no guitars produced by Fender, Gibson, or any subsidiary company they owned at the time of the guitar’s production. (I do own some from companies that were acquired later.)

For the most part, it’s because neither has offered guitars that give me the tones I seek paired with the right feel. I’ve come close, though. Squier has made a couple of baritones that interested me.

And I almost bought 1+ high-end Gibson SGs that actually felt as good as they looked, without the QC issues that seem to plague* the brand. But of the 3 I was considering, a few hours before I could act, someone came into the store and bought them all. I’ve never been able to find any other SGs like them, either.
Im all acoustic these days, but I know what you mean. The issues seem to be more about the body and wood type then the guts for acoustic. Altogether, however, one good sound and feel guitar, is another's not good sound or feel.
* as in, they’re too often not made as well as they should be for the prices they ask
Yeap.
 

R_J_K75

Legend
For the most part, it’s because neither has offered guitars that give me the tones I seek paired with the right feel. I’ve come close,
Altogether, however, one good sound and feel guitar, is another's not good sound or feel.
I'm a hobbyist and collector, and never been a tone chaser. I've always took the approach that unless you are a really a bad guitar player you can make most anything sound good. Feel on the other hand is a different animal. I had a Fender Nashville Telecaster and it just never felt right when I was playing it, so I traded it for an ES-335 which I also never could get used to. It was too bulky to play, so I got an ES-339 which is much more playable for me.
And I almost bought 1+ high-end Gibson SGs that actually felt as good as they looked, without the QC issues that seem to plague* the brand.
I have an Epiphone SG Modern that I never play because it just never felt right. It is extremely light. I usually buy stuff online. Most of what I buy I've been lucky and is good sounding, and feels good, and only needs a few tweaks. I just hate Guitar Center, and the ones around here don't take care of the guitars and let anyone play the hell out of them so you're not getting a good representation of how it feels and sounds like with a good set up. The only other music store around is Guitar Factory and after I took a guitar in to have some work done on it, the staff seemed less than competent so I won't go there anymore either.

Speaking of Gibsons QC issues, which I've read are very common, the guy I mentioned above ordered a Gibson Les Paul and the headstock was cracked off when he got it. Now could've happened in shipping but if they were smart, they'd redesign the headstock without the stupid 17-degree angle that makes them so prone to snapping.
 

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