The Enworld Exalted Discussion Thread

The cover's pretty revolting, as far as I'm concerned- it's lines all center directly upon the sorcereress' "Valor Chakra." Blatent cheesecake.

As for the content, I'm pretty unhappy about it- a revised Bo3C is not what we need at this point- there are plenty of more important revisions required than discussing how to make artifacts or additional Sorceries *again.*

But... I'll buy it anyway. Can't help it.
 

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Welverin said:
So has anyone had a chance to test out the Power Combat rules yet and can report on their effect on play and what effect they have on the speed of combat?

Power Combat both rapidly speeds up Exalted combat and dramatically alters the feeling of Exalted combat as well. What was originally a resources game where you attempted to outlast an opponent's motes (or just blat him if you're clearly superior) has turned into a far more lethal set up.. with defense being critical more because you don't want to outright die in a few hacks... there's a larger feeling of threat than before.

First and foremost, Essence is quite simply the most powerful stat currently out there now. Before it was good as a pre-requisite for Charms, and it gave additional motes and powered up some opposed checks ("target saves vs your Permanent Essence" stuff)... now your minimum damage is based upon it. Pinging for 3 or 4 or even 5 is far different than pinging for 1. Heroic Mortals cry, Sidereals weep... and Solar players max out their flaws so they can start at Essence 4 without completely gimping themselves.

Rate has a dramatic effect in speeding up play. Instead of making 8 attacks at 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 dice, your power players will now be making 4 or 5 attacks at 13,12,11,10,9 dice.. with some of the fastest weapons in the game. Not rolling an extra 3-5 attack pool per round definitely helps, and without the 1 ping damage, you can roll a third or fourth the attacks and still produce the same damage output- limiting actions per turn actually speeds up combat in this regard.

Initiative has changed as well... originally you could delay, wait to hear what your opponent did then react so that you could get a free nearly unavoidable attack in there (You attack twice and defend three times? Fine, i defend twice and attack FOUR times!). Now, you can do this, but you suffer based on how long you delayed. If you go on 20 and your opponent goes on 10, choosing to attack based on what he'll do will cause you to take a hit to your attack rolls by the amount of initiative counts you waited. Your sneaky attack will suffer a -10 penalty. It's fair, and it promotes action rather than simple reaction. The race for 0 ends with Power Combat, thankfully.

The rest is basically gravy- nice gravy but with less impact than the two above issues.

We did our first Power Combat a couple weeks ago. The lineup was as follows:

Zenith w/ Daiklave,
Night w/ bow,
Eclipse w/ Daiklave,
Moonshadow w/ Daiklave,
two NPC Dawns (one daiklave, one longsword)
NPC Twilight w/ mace

vs.

1 Dawn w/ Daiklave
2 Teodozji (First Circle Demons)
12 Dragon-Blooded (Medium Armor, shortswords/longswords/couple daiklaves/couple powerbows)

That's a total of 22 combatants (21, if you count the fact that the Moonshadow walked out, leaving his party to fight without him). 22 combatants in Exalted in the old rules would have taken a good 6 hours- we did it in 3 hours of gaming (with a solid amount of roleplay during the fighting, not hours of silent rolling). 15 bodies dropped in 15 seconds of Exalted Time.

Surprisingly however, the combat wasn't horribly lethal for the Solars, despite the fact that their foes were rolling twice or three times the ping they originally did. Only two "Good Guys" died. The Night Caste, died, and that was when he was shot with sufficient force by a Wood Aspected Exalt that he flew off a balcony and landed on his back in the middle of the general melee. He took a greatsword and a chopping sword to the chest while on his back, and died. The NPC Twilight also died, riddled with rapidfire arrows from the Wood Aspects (they are seriously nasty if left to their devices!)

There was an additional casualty in the session later on, but I chalk that up to a bad choice and a couple bad rolls rather than Power Combat.
 
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clark411 said:
First and foremost, Essence is quite simply the most powerful stat currently out there now. Before it was good as a pre-requisite for Charms, and it gave additional motes and powered up some opposed checks ("target saves vs your Permanent Essence" stuff)... now your minimum damage is based upon it. Pinging for 3 or 4 or even 5 is far different than pinging for 1. Heroic Mortals cry, Sidereals weep... and Solar players max out their flaws so they can start at Essence 4 without completely gimping themselves.

This is one thing that I'm not so fond of. Essence ping is cool, but the extra things that Essence does under Power Combat is a bit much. Now it influences your Essence pool, your ability/attribute max, minimum damage, adds to your dodge pool, and influences your Charm selection. That's a lot of stuff for that one stat to do.

Mortals (other than thaumaturges) do get shafted with their 1 ping, Sidereals would do well to get the Violet Bier of Sorrows Form charm ASAP if they plan to do any MA goodness, but I think that Solars who race for Essence 4 or 5 at chargen in order to be combat machines are doing themselves a disservice. Those 14 or 21 freebies could be doing so much more for them, and while they may have large amounts of Essence, they will be substantially less versatile when compared with their Circlemates.

Rate has a dramatic effect in speeding up play. Instead of making 8 attacks at 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 dice, your power players will now be making 4 or 5 attacks at 13,12,11,10,9 dice.. with some of the fastest weapons in the game. Not rolling an extra 3-5 attack pool per round definitely helps, and without the 1 ping damage, you can roll a third or fourth the attacks and still produce the same damage output- limiting actions per turn actually speeds up combat in this regard.

This I like a lot. I love the addition of rates for melee weapons. I always thought it was nothing short of ridiculous for a person to swing this giant gold/steel alloy sword around 8 times in 3 seconds. Also, as Glorious Solar Saber and Resplendant Shadow Blade have an unlimited rate, it gives more reason to take those Charms.

Initiative has changed as well... originally you could delay, wait to hear what your opponent did then react so that you could get a free nearly unavoidable attack in there (You attack twice and defend three times? Fine, i defend twice and attack FOUR times!). Now, you can do this, but you suffer based on how long you delayed. If you go on 20 and your opponent goes on 10, choosing to attack based on what he'll do will cause you to take a hit to your attack rolls by the amount of initiative counts you waited. Your sneaky attack will suffer a -10 penalty. It's fair, and it promotes action rather than simple reaction. The race for 0 ends with Power Combat, thankfully.

This is another part of the core rules I disliked. Initiative was way too valuable. With these changes, initiative is still very valuable, but now it's helpful in forcing people into full parries rather than just waiting for your foe to do something. A giant battle with the fast reactors just standing there waiting seemed counter to the theme of the game.

The rest is basically gravy- nice gravy but with less impact than the two above issues.

Most of the rest of the stuff is less important, but the Charm revisions were also introduced in the Power Combat section. These changes are great. The Solar Resistance charms especially rock now, increasing the viability of the unarmored thug. For example, Iron Skin Concentration becomes a 3 mote reflexive action to reduce any incoming attack to minimum damage. Monster Lunar comes up to me with a giant daiklave, doing a raw damage somewhere in the neighborhood of 30L? No prob, 3 motes, and she's rolling her Essence in damage.

That's a total of 22 combatants (21, if you count the fact that the Moonshadow walked out, leaving his party to fight without him). 22 combatants in Exalted in the old rules would have taken a good 6 hours- we did it in 3 hours of gaming (with a solid amount of roleplay during the fighting, not hours of silent rolling). 15 bodies dropped in 15 seconds of Exalted Time.

Hey, I had a perfectly good reason for walking out on the group! :) But, yes, the combat did seem much speedier than I expected.
 

clark411, Tiberius, thanks for the commens on Power Combat.

I've seen some comments from GCG recently that make S&S sound far less like a simple updated reprint of Bo3C and more like a new book that replaces it.
 

*Thread ressurection time !*

Hi there, apparently Savant & Sorcerer is out but it'll probably take a while before I'll be able to get it. Anyone who already has it that wans to spoil the juicy bits ?
 


I picked it up a couple of days ago. And it’s a revised Book of 3 Circles.

That's a good thing. Much of Bo3C was broken or in desperate need of changing. There were a number of spells left out of Savant & Sorcerer that were in Bo3C so the old book isn't totally worthless.

The Artifact creation rules are a massive improvement over the old ones. The guidelines for what it actually takes for a character to build all of that cool First Age technology is an incredible help. I mean what budding Twilight artificer won't be drooling over a First Age Factory-Cathedral? The bits on designing artifacts are generally useful. In S&S there's now 30 pages on Warstriders. Adding two new classes, the Scout and the Juggernaut. And guidelines for built in weapons.

The biggest difference between the two is the section on Demesnes and Manses and the chapter on Summoning. There is no longer a chapter full of Hearthstones. Now everything you could want to know about capping a Demesne and creating it into a manse is there.

The chapter on summoning is fantastic. Need to summon 1000 demons to complete a specific task? Sure. Go for it. You can certainty try. Need a talon of demonic infantry for a single battle? You're covered. Also there are guidelines for giving summoned demons virtue flaws and limit breaks. This is the best part of the entire book. It makes controlling the demon not necessarily hard, but something that the Summoner needs to keep in mind lest the demon snap. The Virtue flaws also reinforce how utterly alien the demons truly are.

Overall it's an improvement. Bo3C is still generally useful for the extra spells and hearthstones, but the quality of Savant & Sorcerer overshadows a lot of the book. I don't mind. S&S is a better book and Bo3C came out quite a while ago.


-Nathan
 


I ended up using the S&S summoning rules when calling forth a hopping puppeteer to shore up a city wall this weekend. I've not had enough time to fully digest the contents of that section, but the fact that I can apply a particular Limit template to a creature and thereby define its purpose and quirks in Creation was really neat.
 

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