The Expanse (Spoilers)

Ryujin

Legend
Right, likely leaving it open to the unlikely possibility of getting a ratings and/or fan save. It does feel like they expected to have more than 6 episodes for the season tho. Pacing feels very odd in the last few eps.
Holding out hope, but this would be their second save.
 

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payn

Legend
Holding out hope, but this would be their second save.
Yeap, a damn shame. I do feel like season 4 and 5 were executed at a fine level, but the writing was oddly paced and felt like they were cramming 4-5 episodes in a 10 episode season. That might have had an impact on ratings. It just wasn't quite as riveting and balanced as the first several seasons.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I just finished the Expanse.

Overall- good, satisfying .... fine.

I wanted to love it, but I didn't. It was rushed and it never resonated with me. There was never any time for moments to breathe. I am glad that they got to finish it, and the ending worked, but there was too much off about it. This is the first time I watched the Expanse where I occasionally glanced at my phone, etc.

Note- I haven't read the books.

Issues I had with it-
The openings with the strange dogs, etc. Okay? I feel like my time was completely wasted by that.
I really like Carmina Drummer (and the actress who plays her). Again, it felt like she was just going through the motions. No resonance.
It's never been big on the Mars perspective, but ... the MCRN seemed to exist only to do stupid things, and never reckon with what happened before. That was kind of a thing in the last season?
There was no buildup for Holden's decision to deactivate the rocket. Nothing.
Chrisjen Avasarala felt more like a plot device than a character. And that sucks, because she's an awesome character.
Everything on Marco's ship- like, what the heck was going on with the character? Eh ....

That said, there were two scenes that I thought were real standouts-
The home-cooked meal with the crew.
The handshake on Ceres.

But as much as I wanted to love this, it fell flat. For me.
 

payn

Legend
I just finished the Expanse.

Overall- good, satisfying .... fine.

I wanted to love it, but I didn't. It was rushed and it never resonated with me. There was never any time for moments to breathe. I am glad that they got to finish it, and the ending worked, but there was too much off about it. This is the first time I watched the Expanse where I occasionally glanced at my phone, etc.

Note- I haven't read the books.
I just finished the last one. My opinion is they are good pulpy sci-fi but the first 3 seasons of the series really takes it up a notch. This is one instance where I can honestly say the series is better than the books (until season 4). More on this at the bottom.
Issues I had with it-
The openings with the strange dogs, etc. Okay? I feel like my time was completely wasted by that.
That builds into a potential 7th season. Something the writers put in and even built a set to film before they were notified that the show was canceled.
I really like Carmina Drummer (and the actress who plays her). Again, it felt like she was just going through the motions. No resonance.
Amazon has some bonus scenes called X-ray. Unfortunately, you can only view it via a PC for some stupid reason. Even stupider, is its difficult to find. You have to start an episode of the show, and only then can you find the "bonus content" button to click. I have walked numerous people through this. Anyways some really good supplemental stuff with Carmina is in there. Also, I think they originally planned the 6th season to be 10 eps and had to cut cut cut to make it 6.
It's never been big on the Mars perspective, but ... the MCRN seemed to exist only to do stupid things, and never reckon with what happened before. That was kind of a thing in the last season?
Yes, Ive been pretty disappointed in the political development since at least last season. They try to constantly play tricks and make people do dumb things so that they can put other things in motion. Its typical lazy TV writing that wasn't present in seasons 1-3 of Expanse.
There was no buildup for Holden's decision to deactivate the rocket. Nothing.
I thought the screen with Marco and Filip in the background was plenty. That decision's fallout is more interesting anyways.
Chrisjen Avasarala felt more like a plot device than a character. And that sucks, because she's an awesome character.
Agreed. She has been that way since at least season 5, unfortunately.
Everything on Marco's ship- like, what the heck was going on with the character? Eh ....

That said, there were two scenes that I thought were real standouts-
The home-cooked meal with the crew.
The handshake on Ceres.

But as much as I wanted to love this, it fell flat. For me.
Agreed, this final season was a bit of a dud. It hits familiar notes, but never reaches any of the heights the series was known for in its earlier seasons.

My theory for a lot of this is how much the writers improved on the story early on that fell by the way side. They moved characters around, changes plots, gave minor characters more exposition and impact (Ashford, Erinwright). It was like the novels were first drafts that the writers took to a whole other level. However, starting in season 4 they just simply slid back into using the novel as storyboard and made few if any changes. As a result, season 4+5 felt like 5 episodes of material crammed into 10.

This seems to be a systemic problem with Amazon content in general. I noticed it with Expanse, then the Boys, and now Wheel of Time. You get a very nice 3 episode arc to start the season. Then, you are treated to a handful of eps where everyone just spins their wheels talking about doing stuff repeatedly, until you have an overstuffed finale packed with things happening. Rinse, repeat. Cant say im a fan.
 

briggart

Explorer
That builds into a potential 7th season. Something the writers put in and even built a set to film before they were notified that the show was canceled.
Amazon announced that Season 6 would be the last one around Season 5 launch, and it's unlikely they had the set already built at that time. And in any case they would have had plenty of time to adjust the script before actual filming begun. I'm not sure when the decision to have only 6 episodes was taken. If that happened when filming had already started, I guess they could have planned to do more with Strange Dogs but they had to drop it.
 

Staffan

Legend
The Strange Dogs stuff is really important to events in books 8 and 9, and completely irrelevant to anything that happens before that. If you're not going to shoot those, it's pretty much just wasted space (which is likely why it was in a separate novella originally – that and the fact that none of the Main Crew are involved). So I'm guessing and hoping there's some announcement about more stuff in some format soon, but I don't have any idea what it would be.
 

payn

Legend
Amazon announced that Season 6 would be the last one around Season 5 launch, and it's unlikely they had the set already built at that time. And in any case they would have had plenty of time to adjust the script before actual filming begun. I'm not sure when the decision to have only 6 episodes was taken. If that happened when filming had already started, I guess they could have planned to do more with Strange Dogs but they had to drop it.
They had the writing done, the actors on board, and just completed the Laconia set when they were told season 6 was it. This was November 2020, they started filming in Jan 2021. Not a ton of time to reverse all that.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
I enjoyed it, but I wish they had cut out anything not used in the 6 seasons we got (the "dogs", for example).

I felt the last year was rushed, as did others. But, overall, it was good tv (I'd have removed Holden from command for not letting that nuke explode, or left his ship, you can't do that in war).
 

Staffan

Legend
I enjoyed it, but I wish they had cut out anything not used in the 6 seasons we got (the "dogs", for example).

I felt the last year was rushed, as did others. But, overall, it was good tv (I'd have removed Holden from command for not letting that nuke explode, or left his ship, you can't do that in war).
The Rocinante is not under the UN's command, but is a private military contractor. They are given specific missions by the Secretary General, and apparently get part of their payment in kind (supplies, upgraded armor, etc.), but are not part of the chain of command. The military can't remove Holden from command because he's not military.

Plus, the only people who knew about the nuke were the crew of the Roci: first Clarissa, then Amos, and finally Naomi (I can't recall if Amos told Bobbie or just hinted at it).
 

payn

Legend
The Rocinante is not under the UN's command, but is a private military contractor. They are given specific missions by the Secretary General, and apparently get part of their payment in kind (supplies, upgraded armor, etc.), but are not part of the chain of command. The military can't remove Holden from command because he's not military.

Plus, the only people who knew about the nuke were the crew of the Roci: first Clarissa, then Amos, and finally Naomi (I can't recall if Amos told Bobbie or just hinted at it).
I believe they meant the crew should have removed Holden from command, and I agree. I think they should have done it a long time ago, but the guy just seems to fail forward constantly. Like a lucky charm following Holden at this point.
 

Staffan

Legend
I believe they meant the crew should have removed Holden from command, and I agree. I think they should have done it a long time ago, but the guy just seems to fail forward constantly. Like a lucky charm following Holden at this point.
And who should replace him? None of the others have any space tactics or leadership experience. It is telling that Amos' reaction to Holden disarming the nuke is that he strongly considers leaving. He has no interest whatsoever in running anything himself.

The only person who could reasonably replace Holden as commander of the Roci is Bobbie, but she's a guest and a friend, not really part of the crew.

In the books, Bobbie joins up with the crew on a more permanent basis after the creation of the Transport Union, and at the start of Persepolis Rising (30 years after Babylon's Ashes) Holden and Naomi hand over command to her when they are about to retire.
 

payn

Legend
And who should replace him? None of the others have any space tactics or leadership experience. It is telling that Amos' reaction to Holden disarming the nuke is that he strongly considers leaving. He has no interest whatsoever in running anything himself.

The only person who could reasonably replace Holden as commander of the Roci is Bobbie, but she's a guest and a friend, not really part of the crew.

In the books, Bobbie joins up with the crew on a more permanent basis after the creation of the Transport Union, and at the start of Persepolis Rising (30 years after Babylon's Ashes) Holden and Naomi hand over command to her when they are about to retire.
Which makes Holden a good first officer, but god somebody else needs to be making the decisions around there lol.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
The Rocinante is not under the UN's command, but is a private military contractor. They are given specific missions by the Secretary General, and apparently get part of their payment in kind (supplies, upgraded armor, etc.), but are not part of the chain of command. The military can't remove Holden from command because he's not military.

Plus, the only people who knew about the nuke were the crew of the Roci: first Clarissa, then Amos, and finally Naomi (I can't recall if Amos told Bobbie or just hinted at it).
I didn't mean anyone but the people on this ship. They should have. He was wrong.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
So wrong, he made it so his wife now thinks she killed her son. He was a selfish ass, who risked the galaxy for no good reason, other than his fragile feelings.
 

I agree with Clarissa: never feel bad about not killing someone.

Yes, it was strategically short sighted, but ethically? In that moment Marco no longer posed an imminent mortal threat, so it isn't actually justified to kill him and everyone on his ship. It's a real quandary how you should deal with someone you suspect will hurt others, but whom you don't have the ability to detain.

Do you kill someone, assuming that you're preempting harm? Or do you refuse to kill them, because it's a punishment you cannot take back, and you can't know they'd do something in the future that would need to be stopped with lethal force.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
I agree with Clarissa: never feel bad about not killing someone.

Yes, it was strategically short sighted, but ethically? In that moment Marco no longer posed an imminent mortal threat, so it isn't actually justified to kill him and everyone on his ship. It's a real quandary how you should deal with someone you suspect will hurt others, but whom you don't have the ability to detain.

Do you kill someone, assuming that you're preempting harm? Or do you refuse to kill them, because it's a punishment you cannot take back, and you can't know they'd do something in the future that would need to be stopped with lethal force.
They were at war. What evidence was there he'd stop? This wasn't a random soldier.
 


payn

Legend
I agree with Clarissa: never feel bad about not killing someone.

Yes, it was strategically short sighted, but ethically? In that moment Marco no longer posed an imminent mortal threat, so it isn't actually justified to kill him and everyone on his ship. It's a real quandary how you should deal with someone you suspect will hurt others, but whom you don't have the ability to detain.

Do you kill someone, assuming that you're preempting harm? Or do you refuse to kill them, because it's a punishment you cannot take back, and you can't know they'd do something in the future that would need to be stopped with lethal force.
Oh man, I hope I never serve under RangerWickett. Preempting harm? This dude killed billions of innocent people. Where is Miller when you need him?
 

Ryujin

Legend
Oh man, I hope I never serve under RangerWickett. Preempting harm? This dude killed billions of innocent people. Where is Miller when you need him?
Agreed. It was a selfish act, that ultimately got other people killed. Then again I don't mind flawed characters, as long as they aren't one big walking flaw.
 

payn

Legend
Agreed. It was a selfish act, that ultimately got other people killed. Then again I don't mind flawed characters, as long as they aren't one big walking flaw.
Oh I enjoy the the story, I just think Holden is a little too lucky in his idealism. I mean, the universe finds ways to constantly spare him its ridiculous at this point.

Also, I really like the scene with Naomi and how she tells Holden that she gave Filip a chance and he chose Marco. Not only that, but Filip was implicit in the atrocities on Earth so he wasnt exactly innocent. I get why Holden did it, but yes it was entirely selfish. Also also, Peaches situation was entirely different. She killed innocent people for a vendetta. Its just not comparable. I'd guess she would know that too, but wanted to help Holden because she knows what its like to have nobody in your corner.
 

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