The False Dichotomy of "Fluff" and "Crunch"

[Psion]

A few recent topics have got me wondering about the real utility of these two terms when it comes to defining segments of the market and/or content of a book.

I typically defend the concept of PrCs against all comers. And most of the story-laden Rokugan supplements got a mediocre score from me. That makes me pro-crunch, right?

Yet in recent conversation, I was underwhelmed by the otherwise mechanically competant Planar Handbook, but was awed by the likes of Beyond Countless Doorways. Hmm. Not looking so pro-crunch now...

I'm tending to think that really, while these terms have meaning, they lack enough meaning to identify the value in products beyond anything but the more extreme buying segments. I mean I appreciate prestige classes that take an interesting concept and convey it into the game, and not just grab bags of cool powers. And I appreciate expositional material that invites itself to be used as the basis for a game, and does not make itself into more of a novel than a game supplement.

 

[fanboy2000]

I think the terms fluff and crucnch detract from the distiction between diffrent types of fluff and diffrent types of crunch.

For example, I don't don't like the quisi-novelistic fluff of the FR books, but I do enjoy the qusi-National Geographic fluff of The Draconomicon.

Similerly, I don't like new PrCs for new PrCs sake, but I love the PrCs in Eberron.

 

[Steel_Wind]

I think the terms fluff and crucnch detract from the distiction between diffrent types of fluff and diffrent types of crunch.

I think the Fluff vs. Crunch dichotomy is not so much about specifics, as it is about generalities.

In general, particularly given the reticence of WotC to publish many official adventures, we have instead received a very large number of crunchy rulebooks. It is now to the point where, taken as a whole, the crunch has overwhelmed the fluff to the point where there are very obvious signs of crunch exhaustion among gamers.

It's not about any specific PrC being bad (though many are). It's not about any partiular variant rule or spell or feat being bad (though some are). It's about putting all the crunch vs fluff in the pans of The Scales of RPG Balance.

The Scales drop like a rock on the crunch side, and it has become plainly just too much. The overall weight is out of balance and the consumer has become exhausted.

And that's not meant as a slam on quality or any specific evaluation of a particular product. It's just a view from 20,000 feet.

 

[derelictjay]

My take on the whole fluff/crunch thing is kinda like food.

Fluff, like candy, tastes good and often looks good, but not necessarily good for you.

Crunch, well thats the wholesome stuff, you may not like it but it absolutly needed (though in game terms you can drop out crunch, but can't you drop out Fluff too).

In the end a book full of fluff is, well a story, and you have to have the crunch to make it come alive. While a book full of crunch, is just a technical manual, and the fluff gives it flavor. Going back to my food analogy, a person who only takes crunch is heathly but rather boring, and a person who eats fluff is sickly, but at least he's fun to be around. In the end (at least in my opinion), fluff and crunch cannot be had without the other, as such most fluff can be made into crunch, and most crunch can have fluff made out of it. Which, in my mind, makes the argument superflous.

 

[Patlin]

One of the primary lessons I've taken from gaming is that *all* dichotomies are false. Of course, another is that all absolute statements are in error, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Pants]

I rather like it when 'crunch' and 'fluff' (damn are these terms getting annoying...) work in tandem to produce some kind of (un)holy conglomeration of gaming goodness. Flavor and rules should serve and support each other equally. However, I usually find that rules-related material is much easier to port to campaign settings than flavor-related material is.

That's just my opinion though...

 

[fanboy2000]

The Story of Donut Cores and Forgotten Rums

The Scales drop like a rock on the crunch side, and it has become plainly just too much. The overall weight is out of balance and the consumer has become exhausted.

Good point. SKR wrote a nice little story about why that's so (unfortunitly) true.

 

[mroberon1972]

The fact is, people don't vote on this with their voices. They vote with their money.

Money votes for crunch...

 

[Munin]

Money votes for crunch

Mine doesn't...

 

[Incenjucar]

The only problem with crunch is when it becomes so pervasive that you can't just say 'Being in the area makes you feel good', without being sure that you should get some kind of morale bonus from it.