The Flight Topic.

[Minigiant]

This thread is about how do you what flight to be handled in D&D Next/5E and your view on the special ability.

1) About when do you want Fly to show up in spell lists: low level, high level, or epic?

2) When do you want Long term Flight spells and magic items to be suggested to appear (if at all)?

3) What is your preferred balancing factor for Fly spell (control, duration, speed, maneuverability, action economy)?

4) Should Flight Magic even have a natural drawback?

5) Should maneuverability return?

6) How much should the DMG discuss and provide information on dealing with flight (wind charts and effect, falling rules, flight skill checks)?

7) Should the game encourage mundane tactics to combat hostile fliers or should it just encourage DMs to hand out flight or don't use flight?

8) Mundane flight in core (war balloons, gliders, airships, and planes)?


My answers:
1) Late. Double digits. Fly changes the game a lot. The key feature of high level should be PC flight.

2) Epic. Epic should be when you have "Nonchalant Flight".

3) Maneuverability and duration. By having flight spells with different ratings and lengths, you can separate combat flight, travel flight, and utility flight..

4) No. No magic stripping clumsiness or dangerous mass loss.

5) Yes.

6) Since this game has many flying iconic enemies and flight does affect the game greatly, the DMG should contain information for hindering, strengthening and limiting flight and dealing with flying enemies.

7) The core game should contain items like nets and bolas. I prefer if there are strong way to take down fliers but I don''t want them too silly or weak that player feel they need fight. If it can't be done, just load the book with flight items.

8) It should be the the back of the DMG somewhere. No Core but there from the start.

 

[Ahnehnois]

1) About when do you want Fly to show up in spell lists: low level, high level, or epic?
I'd say 5th level is the classic level at which D&D casters break through.

2) When do you want Long term Flight spells and magic items to be suggested to appear (if at all)?
That can be held off until double digits easily.

3) What is your preferred balancing factor for Fly spell (control, duration, speed, maneuverability, action economy)?
None of the above are bad. Duration is the big one though. 3.x Flight spells are too generous in this regard.

4) Should Flight Magic even have a natural drawback?
Not quite sure what you're getting at with this.

5) Should maneuverability return?
Of course. Did it leave? Seems essential.

6) How much should the DMG discuss and provide information on dealing with flight (wind charts and effect, falling rules, flight skill checks)?
The DMG should have a good section on it. Lots of monsters fly.
The 5e skill system seems to have more room for a flight-based skill.

7) Should the game encourage mundane tactics to combat hostile fliers or should it just encourage DMs to hand out flight or don't use flight?
I haven't seen flight as a huge tactical issue. Cut the durations down and let the players figure out what to do when it comes up.

8) Mundane flight in core (war balloons, gliders, airships, and planes)?
Core? No. I'm sure there will be an appropriate space for magic-as-technology vehicles or stupid gnomish inventions, but let's save that for a while.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Rather than answer in numerical order..

I don't mind when flight turns up so long as it's usefulness is in proportion to other spells and effects of that level. My preference would be no flying *and* casting other spells until very high level. So I don't mind if it becomes effectively a utility spell so long as you focus, but for flight through a combat there should be some cost, or high level restriction.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

1) About when do you want Fly to show up in spell lists: low level, high level, or epic?
High level if it is unlimited in maneuverability. Save levitate to about level 5.

2) When do you want Long term Flight spells and magic items to be suggested to appear (if at all)?
Epic for unlimited duration magic. Flying monsters can appear at low level; riding flying monsters like hippogriffs can be an option as soon as PCs figure it out.

3) What is your preferred balancing factor for Fly spell (control, duration, speed, maneuverability, action economy)?
Duration, speed, and maneuverability.

4) Should Flight Magic even have a natural drawback?
Please explain.

5) Should maneuverability return?
Yes. Did it leave? You can't have flight without maneuverability. Dragons and Djinni should fly differently.

6) How much should the DMG discuss and provide information on dealing with flight (wind charts and effect, falling rules, flight skill checks)?
Yes.

7) Should the game encourage mundane tactics to combat hostile fliers or should it just encourage DMs to hand out flight or don't use flight?
See #6 . The DMG needs to coach DMs on how to integrate and handle flight in the game.

8) Mundane flight in core (war balloons, gliders, airships, and planes)?
Blech. No. Too steampunk. Save it for some expansion down the road.

 

[slobo777]

1) About when do you want Fly to show up in spell lists: low level, high level, or epic?

High level. Otherwise it auto-solves too many interesting scenarios

2) When do you want Long term Flight spells and magic items to be suggested to appear (if at all)?

Spells never, I don't like D&D-as-Marvel that this brings to mind. Provided there's some device, skill or constraint that fits with fantasy setting (broomsticks, flying carpets, riding a dragon, Monkey's cloud) then this has right feel for me.

3) What is your preferred balancing factor for Fly spell (control, duration, speed, maneuverability, action economy)?

Don't have a preferred one, happy to leave this in the hands of the designers. I simply expect lower-level access to flight to come with more constraints.

4) Should Flight Magic even have a natural drawback?

Yes, as above it should have constraints in the mechanics that prevent it feeling like a supers game.

5) Should maneuverability return?

Not as it is in AD&D or 3E, that's far too complex, epsecially if I have to DM a few flying bad guys. I like 4E's "clumsy flight" and "overland flight", and the benefits of having "hover". Perhaps add a couple more traits, or something in-between "clumsy" and "normal"

6) How much should the DMG discuss and provide information on dealing with flight (wind charts and effect, falling rules, flight skill checks)?

If base rules cannot fit on a single page, like "mounted combat", then the discussion has gone too far. Don't want 3E's flight, nor something as complex as its grapple rules,

7) Should the game encourage mundane tactics to combat hostile fliers or should it just encourage DMs to hand out flight or don't use flight?

Yes there should be workable options to help non-flying PCs (especially those normally suited to melee combat) deal with flying bad guys. It should require some thought and/or teamwork, and maybe some improvising, but dragons strafing PCs at max range would become dull the second time (might be fun a first time just to give the PCs a taste of what they are up against)

8) Mundane flight in core (war balloons, gliders, airships, and planes)?

Definitely optional material, or setting-specific.

There could/should be a setting available with lots of flight (and some additional flight rules that add to the aerial "feel" of it), but I don't need WotC to publish that any time soon for things I want to do.

 

[1of3]

Action economy. 4e did a good job with Flight and Overland Flight. Except for the fact that Overland Flight was rarely used in a meaningful way.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Flight worked fine in B/X & AD&D, so return to that treatment wouldn't be bad. The idea that flying and chewing gum at the same time causes you to crash was huge turnoff and not needed IMHO.

One thing the game might benefit from as a balancing factor is that casters incur some sort of penalty for casting while they have other spells active.

For example the mage with protection from normal missiles, minor globe of invulnerability, stoneskin, and improved invisibility takes to the air. There is no penalty for all these magics being 'turned on' simultaneously.

If having spells with lasting durations in play made casting other spells more difficult, with mounting penalties for multiple castings, the flying issues would be kept in better check.

 

[Shadeydm]

Arrows and projectiles should be the biggest balancing factor for flight. Exploder is right to point out that the biggest problem with flight was that you could stack spells like improved invisibility or protection from normal missles on top of it.

 

[Raith5]

Good question.

Flight should only be a high level type of thing. Levitation at 7th and flying at 12th, mass flight at 17th (assuming levels 1-20. I like the idea that flying creatures are unstable (-2 to attack) and lose dex bonuses.

Teleportation should also be limited but not as much - because it is one way movement. But I would not like to see a class or race (Im looking at you Eladrin!) which has teleportation at first level.

 

[RangerWickett]

"Look out! It's a wyvern! Grab bows and arrows. Keep it away! Hrothgar, no, you fool! Stop trying to climb the church steeple so you can jump on it when it flies by! You'll never-! . . . Oh, wow. Okay, that actually worked. Awesome."

I would like it if a character who chooses to focus on flight as a major character design element could get access at 5th-ish level. Like, maybe at first level he gets a bit of levitation or quick aerial leaps. And by 5th level he can fly for a brief period of time. Then by 10th level his "schtick" could be that he's the flying one.

But for a dabbler, I don't want flight to be that easy to get. I want spellcasters to have the option to focus on one style of magic, and be better at it than someone who just tries to get a little of everything.

As is in 3e, there's no reason a 5th level wizard can't, in one day, fly, turn invisible, fireballs, and summon monsters. I'd be fine with a generalist doing all that, but maybe at, say, 8th or 10th level.

So flight at relatively low levels is fine for me if a character who can pull it off doesn't also have the ability to rain down eldritch death from out of bow range.

Hell, make low-level flight require a standard action to sustain. And have it be clumsy. Have the spell improve as you level up. Maybe have a feat that improves this one spell at a faster rate.